Edit: Jesus Christ, people. If you buy a $150 Thinkpad made by slave labor instead of a $1,200 MacBook made by slave labor, you’re still supporting a capitalist economy based on slave labor. We all do. We have no choice. The number of smug liberals in the comments saying “well I buy a cheap used laptop” or “well I buy coffee beans and make my own coffee” are completely missing the fucking point.
Don’t tell yourself your consumption is moral. All of us make unethical choices every day because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Accept your shame and guilt and let it drive you to do better.
Nope sorry, there are many much less capitalistically aggressive alternatives to starbucks and apple. Slaves on the other hand literally (and not figuratively as in here) needed to keep slaving to stay alive. I would seriously feel cramps in my stomach if I walked into a starbucks with that sticker.
apple and Starbucks are capitalists. Using their products and services is not “capitalism” but “consumerism”
spending a wage you earned is the opposite of capitalism
I mean not exactly. I am not sayin the person in the photo is but excessive consumerism is what capitalism needs to stand on.
well of course not “exactly.” To get to “exactly” we would both have to write hundreds of thousands of words.
My point is that a lot of people who are proponents of capitalism aren’t actually leveraging their capital as an investment to further expand it.
For example, I just bought a house. I “leveraged” 5% of the property price from my savings (earned by a wage, by the way, not by leveraging other capital) and the bank carried the rest (which it does by leveraging capital). It’s the banks’ house for the next 30 years. I can leverage my equity in the house as that equity grows (which would be a bad idea), but even when the house is paid off, I now have an asset, not capital. Were I to sell the house - now I have capital - but I can’t do anything with, really, practically, except buy another house, again from which lawyers, banks, realtors, etc will all extract capital but I will not.
The second point is that - you need a phone and laptop to survive in modern society, just like you needed a horse in days gone. People love to gloat that people who say “those who do no work but own methods of extracting wealth from those who do should profit less” are then buying something unavoidable from those who extract capital, and point out that they should have budgeted for a slightly lower price point in order to give the wealth extractors slightly less.
And honestly, they are welcome to that opinion. It doesn’t change my opinions at all. We just disagree. They believe people (often other than themselves) are entitled to more of a share in the profit they generated than I believe they should be, either for myself or for anyone.
Anyone is welcome to disagree I just don’t understand why they want to give up their own money. Especially as such people are usually desperately against taxation, which is the same mechanism except it benefits many instead of the few.
Sure, but it’s the fact that out of any other choice to pick, she chose to still give her money to the most aggressively capitalist companies. You can say it’s consumerism, but what point is she even making then? She sat down at a Starbucks to get her overpriced coffee, on a $1200 Macbook with a sticker on it that says “SMASH CAPITALISM”, it’s blatantly hyprocritcal.
maybe she’s there with a gift card she got given and a laptop that was also a gift?
Also my work computer is a Mac, now, and was also when I worked for a print and design company years ago.
maybe she’s an artist and Macs are often considered de rigueur for image and movie editing
maybe she’s not very technical, grew up using a Mac and is sticking to what she knows, who are we to criticise someone for not being skilled at tech, when we are not skilled at javelin throwing, or glass blowing or pointilism or whatever.
There are alternatives out there. That’s all. If you want to say ‘SMASH CAPITALISM’, then don’t pick the most garbage possible way to make your point. At the end of the day, your still buying/using them, especially from the most aggressively capitalist companies such as Apple and Starbucks. You could always sell off the laptop and gift card and support your local businesses instead. There are still local computer shops out there that sell off used hardware.
Also, I mean, you don’t even need to be an expert to use Linux, it’s rather simple actually, especially with AI at our fingertips. It’s just the fact that they keep supporting the exact thing they despise, hence why it looks hypocritical. Do your part and stick to what you preach. It’s like a person that eats at a all-meat resturaunt with a t-shirt on that says “Vegan”.
how do we know it’s not used? I’m just saying we’re putting a lot into this image. Not done a massive deep dive but off the top of my head Apple isn’t really that much worse than Samsung, Sony, NVIDIA, ASUS… Maybe there’s a few percentage points in it - but by any metric: revenue, employee corps, emissions, corruption, e-waste, personal politics or private lives of key figures… are they vastly different?
Ehhhhh. I think you’re vastly over estimating how good people are at tech. Even young people. I reflect on trying to teach my grandmother how to text. Probably around 2004? She could use a VHS and DVD player, land line phone with caller ID, a microwave, set the time on the oven - but pressing keys on a phone to spell was beyond her and she got really frustrated. I also reflect on how someone I know in their early 30s was really annoyed by some old printer software they had from a printer they don’t own any more, and I said “why don’t you just uninstall it” and they didn’t know how.
The average user on lemmy can probably write a Hello world in some language, or at least create <html><head><title>Hello world</title></head><body>Hello world</body></html> … but I don’t know if the average person on the street can.
The average person on the street probably can’t install windows from scratch let alone dual boot Linux, let alone from a Mac OS.
I dont mean that to be snooty, I mean it to highlight you are taking a massive leap of faith in how good at computers most people are.
Sure you’re right. But, I’m still going to take my chances and say that she probably spent her own money lol
Buying anything in a capitalist country makes you a consumer.
And no one has the choice not to be.
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Who’s my local laptop manufacturer?
You just gotta go down to the local laptop breeder and pick out a baby
Find a local shop that refurbishes used machines and provides good warranty
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Framework laptops are like $1700
What Framework are doing is good, but pretending they’re more than a rich person thing right now is silly. AU$2,800 is not a reasonable price and is well out of the range of most people for a laptop.
I definitely wouldn’t mind buying an overpriced product just for the sake of supporting it, but it’s gonna be another decade before they ship to my country so it’s not a real choice for most, especially the price.
Let’s say you do this. Now you just need to buy a slave labor-free phone, car, TV and hundreds of other items. Not to mention you’re paying taxes to a capitalist government.
Anyone who thinks you can escape the consequences of capitalism while existing in a capitalist country is just full of it. It’s like the leftist version of sovereign citizen nonsense
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Yep used thinkpad and some kind of Linux sounds more like it.
Buying a used Thinkpad doesn’t change the fact that it was made by slave labor. It might make you feel better to buy one, but it changes absolutely nothing. You still bought an item made in part by slaves or near-slaves. And you’re keeping the market alive for that to continue.
If you buy used, the manufacturer makes zero profit. It’s a pretty substantial difference ethically.
You are of course giving money to someone who likely has already purchased another laptop, indirectly supporting their consumerism, but I mean it’s still one less new laptop and one less landfill item, it’s definitely among the lesser evils.
Buying used means you aren’t actually contributing to slave labor at all. Buying new would.
Also where are you getting this laptops are made with slave labor idea? We aren’t talking clothing here.
How’s Lenovo’s sustainability versus Apple’s?
if it has linux installed, then much better at least from a software standpoint
All your options are “capitalistically aggressive”. It’s a sign of immaturity to me that people think they’re above it all while still being totally and utterly dependent on capitalist economics. Acting like buying a fair phone makes you better than others is just laughable. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to all your other unavoidable contributions to capitalists.
Not to mention that many of these “better” options are only available to people with money, which makes the entire claim even more ironic. Many of us going this “alternate” less aggressive route can only do so because we benefit from inequality in the first place.
Your argument in no way refutes the point the comic makes.
nope, there is for instance a ton of difference between someone who buys a used phone and uses it for 5 years vs someone who buys a new phone each time a new model comes out. Similarly there is a difference to how much you enable or enhance this system when you make conscious choices about which brands to use (ones that are a part of it or ones that actively redefine and make things worse).
I would agree however that it really makes no sense to of course try to infer all of these from a single photo, maybe this person is super anti consumerism in all other aspects, maybe she is repairing someone else’s computer etc. Nevertheless apple is the last brand you should be using if you want to put a smash capitalism sticker on your laptop, you can at least show the will to have your os open source. Otherwise it is like going to a steak house to eat steak with a “stop animal slaughter” shirt. It is the exact definition for me of acting like you are above it all without showing the effort to be.
Apple is a dumb choice always, but theres no fucking replacement for starbucks and you cannot convince me otherwise.
I would think the exact opposite. Apple’s monopoly practices (you notice they just got mega sued by the USG for antitrust violations, right?) mean if you want to effectively collaborate with people inside the Apple ecosystem you need to use Apple products.
On the other hand, Starbucks is easily replaceable, unless you’re in some sort of food desert urban wasteland, there are local coffee shops everywhere.
Where even is the Starbucks in the photo?
this is a very good point, I am now more angry with myself for not looking carefully and jumping to a conclusion and swallowed the story like a pill
I thought under her butt but maybe not. Is that their seating?
Fuck people in the apple ecosystem. Coffee in diners don’t replace the dessert frappuccinos.
Wow. So, you’re just openly admitting to being a selfish prick and that you have shit taste?
So brave.
Lol whats selfish about not wanting to support the Mac ecosystem? It has lots of effort for minimal return, it’s completely uneconomic for every use case. Plus, it adds incentive to keep using Apple products, which is harmful to its users.
I don’t care about the ecosystem but I care about having macOS. And I care about not having overpriced coffee abominations from starbucks, when I can make better coffee at home for less money.
No one’s talking about diners. We’re talking actual coffee shop or cafe.
Of course any place that just has a coffee machine alongside everything else they do is going to be shit compared to a place that specializes in coffee.
And any sugar bomb dessert drink is going to be “better” than a bog standard cuppa joe.
That’s like going to a sushi restaurant, getting the chicken tenders they have on the menu just so parents can placate picky children, and complaining that it doesn’t stack up to a wings that specializes in wings.
It’s apples and oranges man.
Look, my wife’s from a small town where the main employer pulled out almost 50 years ago. Then they spent a shit ton of tax money on trying to build some stuff to become a cargo transport hub, which failed as no companies bought in. 90% of their downtown is empty storefronts and boarded up windows.
They have two entirely local coffee shops that I can personally vouch to do equal to Starbucks. Personally I think the one blows the pants off Starbucks, but I’m willing to concede in the court of opinion. There’s at least two other coffee places within 10 minutes, two breakfast places, and two sandwich shops that have dessert coffee that stacks up as well, so I’m told.
You could buy the small mansion that sits on the hill overlooking a forested residential area there for the cost of a small townhouse anywhere else. Lovely town, lovely people in it. Impovershed as all hell. There’s still great options besides “Yeah I think Earl put a new pot on sometime today, let me check”.
Out on the highway, exits, and rest stops thereabouts, there’s even franchise alternatives to Starbucks. Dunkin Doughnuts are goddamn everywhere. Tim Hortons, at least up in the northern US. East coast from roughly New York down to Virginia (don’t quote me on the specific bounds) there’s Wawa gas stations, where if they have the sandwich counter they have dessert drinks. Pretty sure there’s other gas station chains that are stepping up too, I just don’t travel like I used to, especially since the pandemic. Dunkincs my go to “I don’t know the area and don’t have time” choice. Much more limited menu options, but I feel it holds up.
Look, you’re more than allowed to have your own fucking tastes and preferences, or maybe you’re literally addicted to Starbuck’s infamously pumped up caffeine levels. Just please don’t pretend like Starbucks is the only option for a good dessert coffee drink.
Oh no, you support a notably horrible corporation and like their products! Welcome to the party. The overwhelming amount of people, even the most socially and human rights concious, are far from perfect in that regard. Everyone has to make their own choices about the battles they fight and where they expend their effort.
Tim Horton’s coffee is total garbage though
I… do you really think Starbucks sells good… anything? I mean, serious question. Do you think their drinks taste good?
Sorry you’re being down voted for having an opinion :-( – even if it’s a horrible one.
Please tell me how I can build ios apps, test multiple browsers (including safari), and test on any iPhone without mac? I don’t want to use a mac but it’s not “always a dumb choice”. Sometimes (by design) there is no choice.
Here is an idea for you, don’t build iOS Apps. If iOS users want to use regular apps or browsers then they’ll have to jailbreak their devices or stop using devices that intentionally limit them. Enabling their poor decisions doesn’t help them.
As a bonus it removes your apple developer fees as well as cuts your development costs by maybe half or even more.
The vast majority of devs doing it for a career don’t get to choose what kind of apps they build.
I assure you everybody has a choice with every action they take, but purely for the sake of argument if you didn’t choose then your superiors did and in that case I’m criticizing your superiors stupid decisions, savvy?
It is so damn stupid if you’re developing a product and limiting yourself to a specific group because of some stupid moral that not everyone shares. Makes 0 sense in business context but sure go for it.
Lmao, the only limiting factor in this equation is Apple.
You’re deluded
Here I am being more judgey about Starbucks.
I’m no Apple fan but I’m no hater either. They’re overpriced but most people who have them are buying them for the style/aesthetic/image…and while that may indeed be shallow, if that’s what they want and the apple stuff delivers it for them and makes them happy, I suppose it’s money well spent (to them).
The coffee on the other hand, if they’re in any city or suburb of any decent size, there’s probably a small local option that’s at the very least as good as Starbucks coffee and likely significantly better.
Exactly, one of the main complaints about macs (being so proprietary and locked down is one of the main selling points. They’re the king of “just works” because they don’t allow a damn thing that might make it not.
I like to tinker so obv that’s garbo, but if you want to get your grandma something and not have to come around once a month to “fix,” Mac might be the answer. 🤷
In my experience locked down hardware just works until it doesn’t just work, and at that point it’s much harder to get working. When my auntie wants to know how to make sure she doesn’t delete her iphone contacts by accident, I need to have the device in my hands and figure out the answer. If she had an android like a normal person, then I could just tell her because I know the answer off the top of my head.
I tried to play Warframe with a friend whose only gaming device is a Switch last year, and it was a massive pain. We eventually got it working, but my friend came close to giving up many times. If she’d had a PC, it would have just worked.
Macs are not really locked down fyi. I can sudo to root and do literally anything I can do on Linux. iPhones sure, but not Macbooks.
Alright but if you’re driving 6 hours across the USA you can get consistently good starbucks in every other town you pass by, but yes I’m sure there might better tasting gourmet options for similar price range in the most populous cities in the nation.
Apple is still a detriment to the end users, though, so I don’t care if it gives them momentary happiness.
Starbucks along with McDonald’s has the most throat ripping base coffee of any chain in the UK.
If I have use a chain I’ll go to Costa but I’d rather use a local trader.
McCafe coffee is actually pretty decent in Aus, if i had to get something fast food it’d be maccas anytime, but we have so many thousands of cafes that i never have to go more tgan a street or two for a good one.
Yeah the coffee and most of the food items at Mickey D’s is garbo, but I’d fight a dude for a more ethical means of obtaining a big mac in less than 10 minutes.
Locally owned cafes???
oh wow what a novel concept, never have I heard of such a thing like eight times in this thread, thank you for sharing your incredibly useful opinion.
I wish there was a replacement for starbucks.
I wish it were possible for an ethical restaurant chain in general at the scale of what we have in the USA, I bet the good timeline has those.