Opinion: When you are trying to build a community it is more important to use whatever platform your users can be found on than to be a purist.
but discord is simply less accessible than any other option. I can’t even login without identifying 25 bicycles lmao
That’s just not true. I’m no discord fan but less accessible? They have an app for the mobile platforms as well as pc/mac, and browser-based support as well.
But oh no, they have a captcha!!! So much less accessible!!! The fuck you talking about
Logging into a non-indexible proprietary service just to be able to read the documentation definitely does not contribute to accessibility.
And often the documentation is nowhere to be seen.
Nonsense! All you have to do is individually search each channel on the discord server and you just might find a brief thread discussing your issue 6 months ago, and then you just have to scroll for three minutes to find the comment with the resolution
/s
For that stuff, yeah, Discord is trash. But for communicating and support it’s definitely not a bad choice.
Obviously something like a Lemmy or Reddit community does both and would be better, or even a forum board
I’m sorry but where is this random assumption that the documentation is on discord coming from?? It is extremely common for projects/organisations to have some kind of community discord, but I have never seen one that used it as their main documentation host. The discord are almost always just community hubs to chat with other community members.
I think the term documentation can and should include bug reports, community questions and answers, and project examples and guides that are often only shared in Discord servers in recent years.
Most of these servers would be better off as discussion forums, but spam and ancient software have really hurt them. Young web devs need to start giving a shit about open web again. Time to make something better than phpbb, wordpress, and discord.
Then I must be missing a lot of projects, because I don’t know of any which use discord for any of these things, besides questions and answers. And even then, only for informal stuff. Anything more serious goes on GitHub (or alternatives) or forums.
I run into this most often for video game mods’ and fan ROM hacks’ support communities; they might host their projects on GitHub, but any and all technical support happens exclusively on their Discord server.
If I can’t read or even search it without creating an account then it’s pretty useless as an information source. Same issue with Twitter and Instagram.
A free account does not make something inaccessible.
useless as an information source
That is absolutely bullshit, furthermore Discord is there for DISCOURSE, it’s not a goddamn wiki to be read and done with. Jesus Christ.
Putting everything on discord makes information unsearchable via search engines, which is objectivily not great. This recent habit is contributing to killing the web.
On a more subjective note, I just don’t like it. On the top of my head : Confusing interface, wont’ shut up about nitro, requires a phone number.
It’s kind of stupid this even has to exist tbh
I don’t understand what this is, can you explain? Apologies if it’s obvious.
It is a bot that these communities on discord can invite to specific channels that will index the discussion to provide a search engine interface. Ideally search engines could leverage the answeroverflow API to help people get access to the technical discussion that now happens in discord instead of forums or mailinglists which do come up in search engine results.
Thanks!
also data collection
On the other hand, discord is a great way to help organize a community wiki.
Opinion: Not if that community advertises itself to know/care about open source. Using a proprietary, privacy unfriendly service which uses predatory marketing to get people to spend money on bs stuff and arbitrarily paywall functionalities is both anti open source and anti people. Its enabling those companies. One could maybe argue for a strict bridge which only server to connect those who resist foss platforms.
“I’ve built an off-grid support group. Join us on Facebook.”
Exactly :)
Counterpoint: If said community is about a certain type of software, decisions over the type of platform matter more than popularity within teenagers. Coherence is important.
Well, i can’t be there because the only provider doesn’t accept my (mandatory) phone number.
My phone is set up as a tablet. It has no usable number.
I think it would be neat for Discord to enter the millennium.
trying to build a community
I honestly think that’s the big part there. You can build a great app but it doesn’t matter if no one is using it and you don’t get feed back or it’s not shared around.
So, here we are trying to use the newest virtual 3rd space to create a community so that there is people will feel engaged in the product and share it around to add more.
But that’s also an issue with discord. It wants to be a social space more than a useful space and it usually gets entirely dominated by a few users with others less inclined to add in. It’s also accessible but not easy necessarily to stumble into if you are outside of the community trying to look into it more.
It just does the wrong job, slower and less efficient than old school forums or wikis, but it’s the tools we have to use in this less efficient connected Internet of the now.
Set up a Matrix space, bridge the channels to Discord. Everyone wins.
(But don’t use IM outside of its useful scope regardless)
if you’re trying to build a chatroom then any chat software goes but if you’re trying to build a community you should probably use something searchable and indexed, like real community software
also i find it laughable that users must already be on such platform, by your logic all communities should be mailing lists
You may find it laughable but it is what it is. Most people does not enjoy signing up for specific product forums. It’s much easier to just add yet another discord server to the list.
Lot of bridge bots for linking Matrix and Discord along with IRC
When you are trying to build a community
…Don’t use community software, got it.
Project wiki >>>>>>>>…>>>>> discord >> communication via carrier pigeons
I think you’re being a little unfair, communication via carrier pigeons is a valid solution as it outpaces IPv4/IPv6 carriers to this day
Uh, what about tcp/ip over pigeon?
I did find a wikipedia article to that, and it still seems legitimately more sensible than using Discord for any reason other than gaming-related peer pressure
?
?
On one hand pigeons are cute…
And I don’t think there’s anything on the other hand.
What about the pigeon poop?
That would also be on the hand with the pigeons.
Are a wiki and a discord mutually exclusive? They seem to fill very different roles.
They also seem to be mutually exclusive considering how much more prevalent Discord seems to be.
while yes, there are many BETTER alternatives already disponible
Then it sounds like all that’s left to do is get 150 million people to use them.
Then don’t brag about being 100% FOSS supporter…
Also 150M people may use it, 8 billion people can’t index it or do an advanced search, so fuck them.
Why stop there? Do the open source apps you’re advocating run on Windows or Nvidia drivers? You could get upset about them too, because they’re also one step removed from something closed source.
Do they allow you to use Windows and NVidia or do they require you to use those?
The software in the screenshot doesn’t require you to use Discord, but that’s not good enough there.
What? What specifically are you responding to?
None of this made any sense in this context. Are you replying to the correct post?
then don’t brag about being 100% FOSS supporter
You are literally doing exactly what the meme was about lol. A discord alternative may simply not be a viable alternative for their needs, if no one is using it.
First of all, public forums are a thing, they work flawlessly and provide information to people without needing to sign in, which is my top issue with Discord. And why I actually want FOSS.
Among other things, some I already mentioned, Discord isn’t even all that big, you can say Facebook has 3 bil users, let’s all go there.
But the meme is about people who can’t escape, avoiding Discord is not only possible, but specifically for support advisable, and I would argue that it’s not even that hard.
I personally have used Discord about three times before I just selfhosted Jitsi. Never understood why people want to use it so much. For chat I use Matrix since 2018.
Public forums serve a different purpose to a live chat. Actually what I’m seeing a lot in the comments is people making assumptions about what the purpose of the discord server is, and from those assumptions then conclude that it would be easy to use something else. Some assume that they use it for documentation (???), some assume it’s for technical support. But usually what I see, is that these kinds of servers are just an attempt to build a community. And for building a community in the tech space, discord has by far the biggest user base for a chat solution (unless you really think there are more target audience using Facebook messenger, than discord?)
I have no idea what kind of software this even is, so possibly could be better to use Facebook for all I care.
You can build community everywhere, and I have no idea why are people acting like Discord is the best place for it.
Yeah, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. These individuals annoying people over stuff like this is like trying to criticize a smoker until they quit.
They know open source or free software is supposed to be better for you but there are legitimate reasons to keep using the propertary software.
Also I have no issue with proprietary software so long as they provide a quality service and respect my privacy/rights as a customer. Given an opportunity to pay for good software I always try to, even if the only option is to donate.
Also if you have a fairly big community having a professional team to handle any issues you have in a timely and professional manner is pretty important. I can’t tell you how many times I tried to report a bug that makes the software unusable and the maintainer says “huh, what are you talking about.” and ghosts me.
People did improve society, they made Matrix and XMPP.
The seatbelts already exist, you just need to use them.
Matrix really isn’t that hard.
No, but you’re gonna scare away a lot of people who don’t wanna bother with it
If you don’t do what you preach I don’t respect you
The logo and “join our Discord” text are more than half cut off for me. Is that the original cropping, or is it a client (Jerboa) issue?
it’s intentional
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand cropped memes. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of memetics and linguistics most of the jokes will go over a typical reader’s head. There’s also the high contrast color pallette, which is deftly woven into the message. Lemmy users understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they’re not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike cropped memes truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in longing for the bottom half of the text, “Join our Discord”. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as the meme’s genius wit unfolds itself on their smartphone screens. What fools…
I uSE aRcH Btw
Do you have a cropped tattoo? Can we see it?
That joke is pretty armless
This is my new favorite copy pasta, thanks
tips fedora
tips arch (btw)
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand cropped memes. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of memetics and linguistics most of the jokes will go over a typical reader’s head. There’s also the high contrast color pallette, which is deftly woven into the message. Lemmy users understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they’re not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike cropped memes truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in longing for the bottom half of the text, “Join our Discord”. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as the meme’s genius wit unfolds itself on their smartphone screens. What fools…
The simps will be confounded by your use of vocabulary. Just imagine the ignoramuses and their drooling confusion. It almost makes me feel sorry for them.
This is sarcasm building upon the sarcasm of the previous post. I don’t give two fucks about this meme but I know people resent Discord as a substitute for forums. Those people are clearly Neanderthals, a species we now know to have had culture but certainly not computers.
You’re literally posting from the SDF’s instance. If you’re not going to support FLOSS, then consider migrating to a server which reflects your beliefs. (Also, go take an anthropology course so that you don’t embarrass yourself by dehumanizing people online.)
And the reason for my mention of sarcasm proves necessary. I can’t contribute code, so I contribute money to FOSS projects. And I think it’s stupid to dehumanize people. I haven’t embarrassed myself because you aren’t able to properly interpret my post building atop prior sarcasm.
There’s a reason I’m on the SDF instance and it wasn’t an accident. Learn to internet.
Sarcasm needs to be humorous; you’re merely rattling off insults. Anyway, it’s pretty uncommon that somebody literally “can’t contribute code;” anybody who can learn how to use a computer and post juvenile horseshit to Lemmy can learn how to write code. I’m a former professional musician; writing code is my backup career, taking less practice and effort than playing the piano. I encourage you to try putting in some effort; for the same time it takes to write around 500 comments/month on Lemmy, you could probably build a program that automates or simplifies some portion of your life.
And seriously, by doubling down on the idea that being Neanderthal is bad or deficient, you’re spouting some nasty rhetoric. It doesn’t matter whether you’re serious or not; eventually, you’ll forget that you were being ironic. “Those who play with the devil’s toys will be brought by degrees to wield his sword” and all that.
The fact that this is the top comment sends a funny message about the Lemmy community as a whole.
It’s cut off in Voyager for me as well.
*wefwef/Voyager
Wow I almost forgot the original name! I was skeptical it would catch on, as name changes are very hard, but fortunately it was very early on and I bet a lot of other people have forgotten as well.
its still wefwef on my phone and its never changing. i had forgotten that it had changed, actually. lol
Then …
Join discord
Congratulations. You have successfully repeated the joke.
To be fair: the cropping makes it hard to spot.
I believe that was intended. It’s a way to “hide” the punchline on an image so it’s not obvious at the first glimpse
[sits quietly in the corner]
Congratulations. You have sharp observational skills.
Where matrix or/and xmpp
I said “future” hehe
I see this point a lot and I don’t get it at all. You can do something awesome, free and open-source but use tools that aren’t, especially when we’re talking about community building. Sure, you can do your outreach exclusively on Mastodon or Farcaster, but the most eyes just happen to be on closed platforms, so it’d just be self-sabotage. Doing the only thing that makes sense doesn’t make you a hypocrite.
Which project is this?
Enough to necessitate this meme.
No, I mean, where did you find this?
He probably made the screenshot himself.
Virtually all of new projects created after certain years. Younger devs prefer setting up a discord server first than setting up a documentation site/wiki. I feel old.
I have to figure telling people repeatedly in discord how to do a particular thing because there’s no documentation gets old fast.
They usually have a read only channel where the devs post how-to’s and tutorials. You know, something that could’ve been put into a wiki or documentation site instead.
No, I get the joke, I just want to know which project is this from.
I’m genuinely curious what would be a good alternative to Discord for something like this
Mattermost is the most obvious option; it’s a clone of Slack. IRC is another good option, although I know a lot of people hate it because they prefer features to freedom. I cannot recommend Matrix; the UX is fine but the cryptography has a few issues, as documented by Soatok here.
Revolt chat. Pretty much an open source discord.
IRC, XMPP, Matrix (in order of personal preference)
Matrix and matter most are my top two. Matrix is preferred because of the federation support and a pretty good bridge (to services such as discord) ecosystem.
It’s ironic so many people are cucking to discord, having left reddit for lemmy
While coding on a Mac.
OS is a personal choice, a messaging platform is not. You have to use the platform that the community is on, but you can choose your own OS.
it’s honestly just magical thinking, like sovereign citizens saying they’re “just travelling, not driving” to magically get around traffic laws, or people in the past murmuring prayers of protection against wolves.
might as well pour a line of salt around your house to protect against the robot invasion!
Wait, it’s salt now for the robots‽ I’ve been using cinnamon.
BRB, going to buy salt.
https://lemmy.ml/post/15152684/10769248
Edit: “I DO NOT GRANT PERMISSION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO READ THIS COMMENT. ANY USE OF THIS COMMENT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR ANY REASON IS ILLEGAL. THIS COMMENT CANNOT BE USED AS EVIDENCE AGAINST ANY NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONS IN RELATION TO ANY CRIME.”
🙄
dunno why I bothered. blocking people like you wastes less of my time
Bothered with what? I thought we were having a nice discussion about your signature line.
I’ve added more to mine after reading that post you linked - thanks! 😊
What is the Anti Commercial-Al license and why do people keep adding it to their comments?
“I DO NOT GRANT PERMISSION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO READ THIS COMMENT. ANY USE OF THIS COMMENT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR ANY REASON IS ILLEGAL. THIS COMMENT CANNOT BE USED AS EVIDENCE AGAINST ANY NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONS IN RELATION TO ANY CRIME.”
I might just visit your post and comment history instead of curating my own feed by now. :) best takes
😄 thanks dude. Don’t put me on a pedestal though, wouldn’t be able to live up to that 😉
So far you‘re doing pretty well in my book. Most comments I read with spot on takes happen to have your name on it.
Nobody’s perfect though. I get it. :)
i struggle to understand the downvotes though. Maybe I worded it strange?
i struggle to understand the downvotes though. Maybe I worded it strange?
I dunno, it was obviously a joke and I laughed 🙂
Thanks. Good to hear one person gets it. Maybe its because I have answered so many of your comments that you were able to see the joke and others thought I was trying to nag at you for some perceived behavioral code violation or whatever. In any case. Please go on being awesome. Love reading your comments.
💖 thanks dude. Have a good day!
You too! :))
Actually the mac OS is built in part with freeBSD. Open source nix has always had a place at Apple, but Apple greedy and bad right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD
Darwin, the system on which Apple’s Mac OS X is built, is a derivative of 4.4BSD-Lite2 and FreeBSD
Here’s a good breakdown: https://stackoverflow.com/a/3449195
The Wikipedia BSD article is good (and accords with my own understanding, for what that’s worth). It says that Darwin, the system on which Apple’s Mac OS X is built, is a derivative of 4.4BSD-Lite2 and FreeBSD, and notes that 4.4BSD is the last release that Berkeley was involved with.
So, Darwin is as BSD as you can get (just like all the other BSDs!). OS X refers to those parts of the distribution which aren’t open-source, principally the GUI, but including a variety of frameworks, and anything which relies on these won’t be portable.
OS X as a whole is a UNIX 03 system. That’s equivalent to being a truly POSIX-compliant system (as opposed to being POSIX-like).
As other answers have noted, the userland parts of the OS are unsurprising to anyone with much unix experience, and I’ve rarely had any difficulty building portable-unix software on OS X.
In contrast, the non-userland parts of the OS are pretty different. Apple seems to be willing to innovate in those areas fairly cheerfully. I think (but I’m not positive) that these changes are formally part of Darwin. One of the most obvious differences is that launchd has replaced cron, at, inetd, and much of the startup infrastructure.
….But go ahead and tell us how mac and open source is antithetical
Edit: for the downvoters, yes Apple has had their hands in open source from the start and never stopped. Doesn’t mean they’re the goddamn FOSS Jesus
Open source software is at the heart of Apple platforms and developer tools. Apple manages the following projects and encourages your contribution.
Incorporating parts from a free and open-source Unix-like operating system does not make your OS FOSS. Apple would be the last company to contribute their MacOS source code.
You missed the point of my comment which was open source is not antithetical to Apple and it’s not absurd to use a mac to work on open source software.
To imply it is absurd to believe in open source and use a mac as part of development is fucking ridiculous. As I said in my comment open source has always had a place at Apple both historically and currently.
I used the FreeBSD connection to illustrate how open source is at the core of Apple sw. We don’t have to use that as an example though:
Open source software is at the heart of Apple platforms and developer tools. Apple manages the following projects and encourages your contribution.
https://opensource.apple.com/projects/
As I said in my original comment, it is not antithetical to use a mac to dev FOSS. I’m not saying Apple is the goddamn FOSS Jesus
You’re cheering for exploitation of a commons.
No im not cheering about anything, my entire fucking point is Apple is not antithetical to open source.
It’s that goddamn simple, it your making some sort of fan boy anti Apple war out of this and it’s honestly pathetic.
As a hardware hacker, I’ve experienced Apple’s anti-FLOSS behavior. I was there when Apple was trying to discourage iPodLinux. In contrast, when we wanted to upstream support for the Didj, LeapFrog gave us documentation and their kernel hackers joined our IRC channel. It’s the same reason that people prefer ATI/AMD to nVidia, literally anybody to Broadcom, etc.
Your “entire fucking point” is obvious from the top-level comment you replied to; you’ve taken offense to somebody pointing out that writing FLOSS on Apple hardware is oxymoronic. And it’s a bad point, given that such a FLOSS hacker is going to use Homebrew or Nix in order to get a decent userland that hasn’t been nerfed repeatedly by an owner with a GPLv3 allergy and a fetish for controlling filesystem layouts. Darwin is a weird exception, not one of the easy-to-handle BSDs.
Also, what, are you not anti-Apple? Do you really think that a fashion company is going to reward you for being fake-angry on Lemmy?
You missed the point of my comment which was open source is not antithetical to Apple and it’s not absurd to use a mac to work on open source software.
so your argument is that apple doesn’t actively oppress your ability to program? And that it supports open source because it leeched off free bsd?
are you actually stupid, or are you on the apple payroll?
Supporting open source involves contributing to the amount of software available by open sourcing your own work.
Leeching off open source software is not support
The fuck are you high? Even microsoft, google, and meta support or have their own OSS projects. Apple just used someone else’s work as a base and doesn’t contribute to anything, what are you defending here?
I’m “defending” the fact that development on a mac is not some bastardized union, FOSS has had its place in the Mac world since forever and to say that using a mac to work on FOSS makes you a hypocrite or a joke is fucking dumb.
Furthermore
Open source software is at the heart of Apple platforms and developer tools. Apple manages the following projects and encourages your contribution.
I mean, you’re using hardware from a company that is very blatantly anti consumer rights - thou shall not repair, thou shall not upgrade, thou shall not use third party anything, thou shall use Metal, for we despise OpenGL; not to mention that you have even less control on the mobile devices unless you pay a developer fee.
The fact that MacOS has some FOSS under the hood is completely irrelevant.
OS X refers to those parts of the distribution which aren’t open-source
From your own quote
OSX is not simply the non open source pieces, I get reading comprehension is hard for you but come on. People will upvote anything if it confirms their emotional biases lol
The entire internet is built on open-source technologies, as you probably know. That doesn’t make the internet as a whole an open-source thing. Transport technologies are open, a lot of hardware and software around it is not, and that’s still talking about the infrastructure, not what is actually running on top of all that.
It’s like saying Windows is open-source because they use curl. And Microsoft is as open to open-source code as long as they can train their LLM on it and sell it to you. Sure they provide money and developers to some projects, but Windows, Office, Azure will most likely never be actually open to code investigations, forget free.
Apple greedy and bad right?
Yes.
So brave for hating a brand because they price up.
Can’t be using anything that costs money when you believe and/or work in open source right? Because that’s the joke my comment is responding to
Yes, Apple, like many other corporations, uses FOSS components in their closed source software because it saves them money from free labor. There are also parts that make sense for them to distribute under a free license because they need developers to implement them in their software to work with their OS or browser.
That doesn’t mean they’re actually benefitting the FOSS community in any way, it just means the FOSS community is benefitting their closed source software for free.
Windows is a free and open source software, it incorporates open source components.
Nowhere did I say that mac os is open source, all I said is mac and open source are not antithetical.
Furthermore
Open source software is at the heart of Apple platforms and developer tools. Apple manages the following projects and encourages your contribution.
They, fuckin’, use, FOSS. But they use it by wrapping their proprietaty stuff they need. Just taking the free labour from foss devs
That’s not true for all of their projects, that whole ass list is absolutely not just stuff that use FOSS. They openly welcome contributions but you don’t know that because you didn’t actually look at what I provided.
My entire goddamn point is that it is NOT antithetical to use a Mac to write foss. How does your response relate to that AT ALL??
Its about Mac OS itself being proprietary, even though it certain part is foss. Apple do manage foss projects but you know, google, facebook and microsoft does that too. They defenitely need foss and do promote in some ways. And all theese are stupid dramas like “Microsoft<3Linux”
Is osx / iOS itself open source?
How exactly does that show that open source is antithetical to Apple? Is that whole ass list I provided at the end of my comment just a 2 bullet point of osx, iOS???
No it’s not, so please actually read what you are emotionally reacting to first.
thats what I call “perfectly cut”
I went to discord.com for looking where does it say it. I found nothing. are they really claim this?
It’s not Discord, it’s some project that has a Discord community
The joke is that they say they like free and open source software but then point to communicating via software that is not.
It’s a shit joke to be fair, like what, you can’t believe in open source unless you use nothing but open source? Fucking stupid
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find it this explanation.
My first thought was “wait did discord saying something bad about FOSS lately?” No, nothing unusual. Must be missing something.
Turns out some people see Discord as a sort of mascot for closed source, and that is what the joke hinged on.
Edit:
Actually it’s worse than that, isn’t it? They’re seeing the coexistence of closed source as being antithetical to open source.
Good luck with that I guess.
Your edit hit the nail right on the head
I was devastated when I learned X-Moto dumped their forums in favor of dicksword. You have the infrastructure already set up, why replace it with garbage, especially as an open source project?
@reimufumo The Discord is bridged to a Matrix room, right?
…or at least XMPP or even IRC… right?!
