Wookieepedia, the most popular Star Wars wiki, appears to have entered an unexpected moment of crisis. It’s impossible to overstate how important Wookieepedia, the fan-run Wiki, is to the Star Wars fandom. It’s one of the largest Fandom sites in existence, with 193,050 pages and counting, and the site has even been frequented by actors and writers as well as general fans.
There’s probably no better online resource when it comes to Star Wars, with Wookieepedia guiding viewers seamlessly through Legends and canon information. Even more impressively, over the last few years, the “Wook” (as it is often called) has become an important part of the online fan community in its own right. Unfortunately, over the last week, the Wook has found itself at the heart of a major controversy.
Leslye Headland’s The Acolyte has proved to be one of Lucasfilm’s most controversial releases to date, with an online backlash and a pretty transparent review-bombing campaign. One of the strangest controversies was over the age of Jedi Master Ki-Adi-Mundi, a character who makes a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it cameo in The Acolyte episode 4. This appearance contradicted a 1999 CD-ROM and a 2013 trading card, both of which established that Ki-Adi-Mundi shouldn’t have been born yet. Neither are actually canon, and Lucas himself contradicted the CD-ROM later in the prequel trilogy when he changed Ki-Adi-Mundi’s lightsaber color.
Ki-Adi-Mundi’s age became an unlikely flashpoint, especially when the canon page on Ki-Adi-Mundi was edited on Wookieepedia to reflect his appearance in The Acolyte. This resulted in death threat messages against the editor, and these were publicly shared by Jordan Wilson - then a key member of the Social Media Team and administrator of the Wook. Wilson had not been given permission to make these public, however, and has since acknowledged that doing so was a mistake. This seems to be the inciting incident for a major change at Wookieepedia.
“In episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy’s skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we-- to believe that this is some sort of a-- a magic xylophone or something?”
Let me ask you a question. Why would a man who’s tshirt says genius at work spend all of his time watching a children’s cartoon?
I…uh…I withdraw my question.
Man, I miss the days watching The Simpsons while eating dinner and not having to worry about taxes or the perceived downfall of society.
A wizard did it.
I had a moment recently where I noticed that in Bluey, the kids were sticking their legs through the bottom of their plastic car (one of the Grannies eps) but in the next scene the car had turned over and clearly had a solid bottom panel.
Yep… magic car apparently!
As always, the key to enjoying Star Wars is to stay the hell away from Star Wars fandom.
And to stop watching after Episode Six.
All of star wars is pretty decent if you look at it as “this is what I’m doing for the next two hours and then I’m going to move on with my life”
I’d argue that ep9 at best wasted my two hours and at wort burnt some braincells
I haven’t even seen Ep 9, Episode 8 burned me. I haven’t even bothered to pirate download it.
Most memorable ep 8 moment:
“Huh, this scene is dragging on for a bit”
Looks at watch
Halfway through movie
“Oh. Oh no.”
Idk, I thought turning Star Wars into a comedy was a pretty bold move
I’ve been wanting to edit a laugh track into one of the recent movies to make it better for quite some time.
I should really get around to it when I finally can get my PC back up.
Episode 9 was pretty. That is its worst sin. It’s so goddamn stupid, from soup to nuts, but half the concepts crammed through its wide-open plot faucet are visually fascinating and executed beautifully.
The mock duel between Rey and Kylo, when they’re barely on the same planet, somehow works through direction alone. The fanciest effect carrying it is the jump cut. It only exists in the edit.
Having the wreckage of a Death Star brought down to the scale of ruins, slipping into the sea, is arresting. Even the precognition-powered knife thing is an intuition pump for the audience to go ‘oh right, the Force, wow.’ It’s a detail that makes this mystical life energy more than a grab-bag of generic superpowers.
The trouble in full is putting these things in the same movie with an as-you-know secret villain reveal, an ancient festival planet oops we blew that up, an ad for toys with new jetpacks, a very dead Sith’s hidden ship and abuse-victim droid and giant fucking snake and secret
black speech of Mordorforbidden communications codes and decoder-ring-ass killamajig knife, Planet Vichy, the alleged protagonist’s ex-girlfriend, three separate fake-out deaths, the super-secret map so secret they only ever made two whoops I mean three, the even-secret-er Siths-only planet nobody can navigate to unless they’ve been there or it’s the third act, an entire fleet of a gajillion Ultra Mega Star Destroyers, and a climactic horseback laser battle because spaceships can’t look up.But sure, guys. TLJ was the bad one. Stretching all that horseshit across four hours would’ve been amaaazing.
If you’re not swinging a remote control going vrrrrm KSSHHH then you’re dead inside.
…and you start with Episode Four, right?
Right??
Well…Rogue One is pretty damn good.
Sure is! I was just taking a dig at Episodes 1-3. I rather liked Andor as well.
“The other episodes are not stories that the Jedi would tell you.”
Of course. Four to six, and if I had time to waste, maybe one to three. The rest is bla.
And this comment is exactly why you should stay away from the Star Wars fandom.
Indeed. I like good Science Fiction. Star Wars is not on my list.
How do you stay away from yourself?
Obscene amount of drugs.
You mean death sticks?
Fandom isn’t a good website anyway, maybe they can use the opportunity to move to their own site like Minecraft did a few months back.
The migration of the Old School RuneScape (and RS3) wikis to a standalone site was a night and day improvement in quality over the previous fandom. Something sponsored by the parent company is infinitely better.
Death threats??? It’s so fucking pathetically horrific, what the hell is wrong with people
This resulted in death threat messages against the editor
What the fuck is wrong with such people? Get help.
Nobody hates Star Wars content and its fans as much as Star Wars fans do.
But you don’t get it, this one has trans people, and a lesbian, and a lesbian showrunner, and only like 2 white guys and one of them is the bad guy, and the main character is a fem presenting strong character (and theres 2 of them). They aren’t even white.
Why would Disney alienate their core audience, me a cis white straight bigot that is already mad that women and minorities and queers exist without them shoving it down my throat?
Don’t you get that this is a threat to my privilege?
The inciting incident was that the only canon that existed that had a birth date for Ki Adi Mundi indicated his birth as being a good number of decades after the Acolyte takes place, combined with more lore and canon stating that his species is relatively short lived.
Then, someone edited his listed birth date to be roughly 30 or 40 years before the Acolyte takes place, with absolutely no citation, so as to allow Mundi to be alive in the show.
That is what blew up into the insane drama which has apparently now resulted in death threats. Someone just took it upon themselves to invent a vague time frame of possible birth date with no actual source.
Cereans (Mundi’s species) who live to 60 years are considered ‘ancient’, and well, now that the Acolyte show exists, Mundi would be 120 or 130 in the prequels. This would be akin to a human living to something like 220 years old with 0 explanation.
The other reason people are angry about the retcon is because Mundi has nearly no lines in the prequels, but one of the few he gets is to express shock at a report of Sith:
Impossible. The Sith have been extinct for a millennium.
Yet, in the Acolyte, he is shown to be aware of a rogue force user as he receives reports of this.
Basically, him being alive or not aside, this means that either he is a moron/incompetent who never followed up on this report, or a liar covering up a conspiracy… and because he says this amongst the Jedi High Council, this becomes transitive and means they are all some combination of either incompetent and/or knowingly going along with a lie, and have been for decades.
In the Prequels, the excuse for the incompetence of the Jedi High Council is that basically Palpatine was exuding some kind of Dark Side ‘confusion’ ‘mind clouding’ effect that made the Jedi never realize what was going on, being unable to sense a Sith in relatively close proximity to them.
This does not work going backwards about 100 years as Palpatine would not have been alive.
Who knows, maybe episode 8 will offer some kind of explanation for this?
EDIT: Ok, I have now seen episode 8.
While the show very much seems to be setting up for a second season… given that this is easily the most controversial, poorly received by fans and least watched of the Disney + Star Wars shows… I do not know if that is going to happen.
As it stands…
Err, well, ok:
SPOILER WARNING
Every single Jedi involved in the original Brendok incident is dead.
Every Jedi tasked with investigating Mae’s murders is also dead.
Osha and Smilo have escaped, Mae had her memory wiped for everything after she started the fire…
And Venestra is leading a coverup of the entire affair, and has pinned all of the recent Jedi deaths on Sol.
The last scene is Venestra approaching Yoda and saying ‘we need to talk’.
While this arguably makes Ki Adi Mundi less of an idiot and or liar, as presumably the cover up would involve a fake explanation for what he had heard…
…This now makes Yoda into seemingly knowing most of what has gone on as Venestra would presumably tell him the truth, and they would together mastermind a coverup.
Venestra is earlier shown force sensing Smilo and would presumably know he is a Sith simply from detecting him, and also later mentioning that he was her former apprentice who turned.
This means Venestra knows a Sith exists.
So now instead of Ki Adi Mundi, a minor character, being either a moron or conspiratorial liar…
Now it is Yoda who is almost certainly a conspiratorial liar in the Prequels and Original Trilogy, who knows that Sith have existed in the not so distant past, and has collaborated with Venestra to cover this all up.
As for what I would consider not major spoilers:
Welp, much of what was established and agreed upon by a great deal of I guess ‘formerly’ canon material about khyber crystals (sp), how they work, how lightsabers are constructed, etc, that has all been changed or just ignored.
(Which reminds me, the original article this whole thread is about says that Ki Adi Mundi’s lightsaber being a different color in a film as opposed to other stuff means that all of that is not canon anymore? No, it does not, it just means Mundi constructed another lightsaber at some point.)
(Further, the author just states ‘neither of these are canon’. The entire problem that older Star Wars fans have had with Disney Star Wars is that Disney is exceedingly inconsistent when it comes to what they consider canon and non canon.)
(Ok, I mean sure there are a bunch of other problems people have, some legit criticisms, others very stupid and based entirely in bigoted views, but damnit this is my sperg post.)
(Prior to Disney taking over, there was an entire established hierarchy of canonicity, and now with Disney, they throw out entire huge plot arcs, time periods and characters and world mechanics that were canon, invent new things that break existing mainline and more ancillary canon, and then also mix and match some things that they originally said were not canon but apparently now are, back into their new stuff)
Osha is… either able to do something that has, to my knowledge, never before happened anywhere in anything Star Wars before, or, more likely, it was just done as a visual metaphor with little regard to existing canon, which probably won’t be explained.
EDIT: Ok, I have now seen episode 8.
While the show very much seems to be setting up for a second season… given that this is easily the most controversial, poorly received by fans and least watched of the Disney + Star Wars shows… I do not know if that is going to happen.
As it stands…
I have been adding to and editing my post as you replied, so apologies for that but…
I am seeing two ways to read this post, and I am not quite sure which one you are going for.
-
You are with me writhing in pain as older established characters continue to be significantly altered in a way that is detrimental to the overall narrative of pre Disney Star Wars
-
You are implying that Yoda is referencing these things that occured 100 years ago in a scene where he very clearly is not.
Sorry, I am in full autism mode trying attempt to understand how basically any of the canon works at all, at this point.
Mostly the first option, but the second option was also intended as a joking subtext about his new connection to these events
Damn, it has been a long time since I have seen or heard someone intentionally say or post something that has two or more distinct interpretations, and all of them are intended.
Bravo on that, haha.
-
Jedi(:?) Survivor is canon and includes kyber bleeding, and I think I read that a canon Vader comic includes it, but this is definitely the first live-action occurrence.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t kyber crystals need to be put in such a perfect alignment inside a lightsaber such that a tiny defect causes a saber to basically explode? That the whole point of lightsaber’s being unique to force users is that it requires force sensitivity to construct one?
The crystal in Acolyte 8 is shown to crack. So… in addition to kyber bleeding, Osha now appears to have a kyber crystal healing ability, otherwise that saber should have shorted out or exploded.
Ah that’s a good point, nice catch. I didn’t realize that’s what you were referring to. Big if true.
Osha is… either able to do something that has, to my knowledge, never before happened anywhere in anything Star Wars before
Do you happen to know if Qimir’s force memory wipe ability is also new to the franchise/canon?
Memory wipe is new to the current canon, but it has existed in Star Wars “legends” previously.
Yep, last usage I remember was on Revan.
The entire problem that older Star Wars fans have had with Disney Star Wars is that Disney is exceedingly inconsistent when it comes to what they consider canon and non canon.
Can you elaborate? It was my understanding that from the time Disney erased the EU everything that was newly produced by Disney (plus the existing movies and the Clone Wars cartoon) were all considered canon. Disney originally proposed eliminating tier structure of canon the EU had, which I know has led to some canon snarls in Disney canon, but those snarls are exactly because everything they produce is canon.
EDIT: For what its worth, I did not downvote you.
Boba Fett escaping the Sarlacc pit is from the EU, Disney took that main concept and then disregarded basically everything else the EU had to say about that.
The entirety of lore around the history and traditions of the Mandalorians is from the EU, Disney took a few general ideas from that and then did their own thing.
So there are some examples of ‘the EU is not canon, except for parts of it, when we say so.’
Thrawn is in arguably the most confusing situation.
Originally he is the main bad guy of the Thrawn Trilogy storyline, and much of the EU dovetailed with this, including a good number of the earlier video games… but then Filoni gave him a backstory in Clone Wars and Rebels.
For a good period of time, no one knew if Disney would include Clone Wars and Rebels as canon, because Disney was not clear on this, but then they decided they are canon, but due to movies 7 8 and 9, the actual primary storyline of Thrawn is impossible, but then Asoka and the characters from Rebels get a Disney show, so basically some derivative parts of Thrawn are canon while the original works he is from are not.
I am just going off the top of my head here, but also in terms of spacecraft, there were a bunch of ships in earlier video games, such as K Wings and TIE Defenders, that many older fans who played the older games and read EU stuff are familiar with, which do not appear in Disney movies and are instead replaced by other spacecraft… this does I guess make sense if Disney just says none of those things are canon anymore, but a whole lot of older Star Wars fans absolutely loved that stuff.
I think it is now long defunct, but there may still be a downloadable version of Free Worlds, Tides or War, a Star Wars mod for Freelancer, on ModDB, that was able to build up basically an entire universe of factions and ships based around the EU, set something like 10 or 20 years after movie 6. It features a good deal of these ships, and was created before Disney acquired Star Wars.
If someone tried to make that mod today, it would be impossible, as the canon is now altered, confused, incomplete and inconsistent and far from detailed enough to provide the status of various factions and planets in the New Order timeline, whereas before, there was a mostly consistent EU to directly draw a multitude of specific details from.
I don’t think it’s confusing at all. The current canon can selectively incorporate elements of the old EU. Some classic EU being incorporated does not recanonize everything around those elements. It is best, for canon purposes, to treat the incorporated EU elements as if you don’t know about the EU.
I say this as someone who deeply enjoys the EU, and prefers it to the state of modern official canon.
Movies>shows>books>comics>games>Christmas Specials
This was figured out a long time ago picardfacepalm.jpg
And below the Xmas Special are the sequels.
What sequels?
You have it backwards, Christmas special is the ONLY definitive canon.
Actually, after sleeping, I’d like to amend my statement:
Original trilogy > anything written by Timothy Zhan > KOTOR > The Clone Wars > Andor > personal headcanon >
George Lucas’ fever dreamThe Prequels > Cool shit I read on Wookieepedia no matter the source > Books/Comics/Games > Disney > Christmas Special > Sequels
Unfortunately, the “promise” by Disney upon deleting the EU was a unified canon where all their Star Wars material would be equal. The reality is a lot messier now because canon conflicts still happen, but can’t be resolved officially by tiers.
Ach, Disney and their shenanigans. I’ve revised my tier list to suit myself
Original trilogy > anything written by Timothy Zhan > KOTOR > The Clone Wars > Andor > personal headcanon >
George Lucas’ fever dreamThe Prequels > Cool shit I read on Wookieepedia no matter the source > Books/Comics/Games > the rest of Disney > Christmas Special > SequelsI concur that for headcanon the tier list should be “things I personally enjoy>end”.
That’s a different discussion than how the canon is formally treated. If somebody asked what is canon, I would give a very different answer than if somebody asked what I personally consider an enjoyable interpretation of Star Wars.
Just say the Acolyte showed Ki-Adi Mundi Sr. and the prequel movies showed Ki-Adi Mundi Jr.
Ki-Adi Mundians reproduce through budding like yeast does. Once the head is large enough, it pops off and forms its own Ki-Adi Mundi, a genetic duplicate of the parent.
Ahh, the miracles of life.
Actually, according to legends Ki-Adi Mundi fucks.
A lot.
He has 5 wives whom he does not love.
Which is why the Sr./Jr. explanation can make sense here. Both would be males of the endangered species so the Jedi allowed each to breed. The reason Mundi Jr. knows nothing about the Sith is because his father never said to him “I love you, son”, “Want to play catch, sport?”, or “There are Sith currently”
Tbh Is prefer this to Legends Mundi. Guys a dick
It did seem an odd fuss over what could be easily hand-waved away if required. However, his previous age doesn’t seem to be canon, so I assume this was approved from higher up as it gives us two known GR Jedi on the Council at the time.
All of this because of a minor character with, what, 5 lines and roughly 3 minutes of screentime throughout 3 movies?
All this because Disney continually hires people for star wars that seem to have active contempt for anything that came before. They just want to tell their story with a story wars skin, regardless of what is already established. The only widely regarded as good show also happens to be the only one to admit to consulting wookiepedia during writing.
Which one of the buttons on Darth Vader’s suit call his mom to come take him home? Huh? Can you tell me that wookiepedia?
Best Triumph.
No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
In the olden daze folks would argue over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Fighting over a sociopathic multi-national’s IP canon seems very much like arguing over pin heads and angels.
At least 15.
Listen here you bastard, it’s three tops
I’ll poke you with sticks for ten thousand years.
I swear, my descendants shalll never forget this mild slight.
pin heads
Definitely pinheads involved.
If your Wiki is big enough that people go “Wait, that’s on Fandom?,” move your Wiki off of Fandom.
This is totally unrelated, but –
Wookieepedia is the only lore site that makes sense to be written in the past tense. The stories take place a long time ago, after all.
In contrast, I hate the Forgotten Realms wiki. There’s no good reason for entries there to be written in the past tense. Grr.
???
So, would you have them go back through once a year or so, to change now historical data to be in the past tense, and only newly-added “current” content would be in the present tense? Seems a fuckload easier to just write it all in the past tense…
It’s not like everything happens in the FR at once… decades have passed since I started adventuring there.
No, that would be obnoxious. I would just have it all in the present tense. If you’re reading a page that was applicable in 3.5 but not 5e, just have a banner indicating the version it applies to. The Dwarf Fortress wiki does this and it’s clear to anyone reading.
Eh. To each their own I suppose. In my mind, any info that’s made it to the wiki has already happened and thus should be in the past tense. I don’t see it as up-to-the-minute live reporting.
I don’t think anyone who sat down and watched through the first 3 episodes can honestly say the show is being review bombed. Im enjoyed Ashoka and Boba Fett and I honestly have no interest in wasting my time finishing the show.
It’s like the nothing burgers of the Disney star wars comics. The Darth Vader series was great, and I love the idea of bleeding light sabers red. But everyone other series leading into the last Jedi was a waste of time, and I bought and read every single one.
I don’t think anyone who sat down and watched through the first 3 episodes can honestly say the show is being review bombed.
I can understand why people decided after the third episode that the show was bad, but I think that reaction was short-sighted and impatient.
A lot of the reviews decrying the third episode completely miss what I thought was very obvious in that episode: we were seeing the events through a single perspective, that of a child who is missing a significant amount of context. The “plot holes” are on purpose, to make the audience say, “Nah, that doesn’t add up.” Because it doesn’t.
Sure enough, in episode 7 we see the same events from more perspectives and, surprise, it makes a lot more sense. We get to see through the lies of the Jedi.
I’m not trying to say The Acolyte is perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than 3/10 or whatever IMDB has it as right now. And it brought a lot of cool stuff from Legends onto the screen.
I enjoyed the ride. The easter eggs were fun, the fight choreography was as solid, and Manny Jacinto is amazing.
I understand, and I definitely don’t fault anyone who likes the show or stuck through it. I just feel like too many shows I’ve been watching lately hasn’t been worth the slog to get through, and it’s been killing my excitement for franchises.
For example I haven’t watched house of the dragon because game of thrones rushed ending, Picard season 3 because of season 2, and I fell off the marvel train after Wanda vision, falcon and winter soldier, and she hulks endings, all shows that either ending in nothing burgers or wtf I guess we need to end somehow.
I just feel like too many shows I’ve been watching lately hasn’t been worth the slog to get through, and it’s been killing my excitement for franchises.
I feel this. I also haven’t bothered with House of the Dragon. Or the LotR show.
House of the Dragon is definitely a good show, also, completely different show runners than GOT. The overall arc, AFAIK, is also already written it’s part of GRRM’s history of the world, they’re only filling in details. LotR is forgettable slop without grander rhyme or reason in favour of moment-to-moment engagement.
