Although this is obviously a dumb solution, I do get what he’s saying. Part of why the job market is so bad right now, is that there is a lot of people (often with the help of automation) sending out applications in bulk to companies they fail to meet even bare minimum requirements for. For example, its anecdotal, but a local company has given up on public postings because last time they tried, they received thousands of applications in a single day (most of which with no qualifications) and the ones they tried to reach out to weren’t even in the country. There are a lot of ways to help filter this, but it just highlights what a mess things are right now.
Part of why the job market is so bad right now, is that there is a lot of people (often with the help of automation) sending out applications in bulk to companies they fail to meet even bare minimum requirements for.
But this is a direct result of employers actions with incomplete or deceptive job postings, bad faith interviews, and ghosting prospective candidates.
Employers aren’t a collective either though, and while abusive employers drive workers to this, more desirable positions (often with better companies) are the ones who bear the brunt of this. The new doctors office looking to hire staff at a fair rate shouldn’t be punished because every McDonald’s on the planet abuses their workforce, nor should the workers who are actually able to work and now have a harder time finding work.
The new doctors office looking to hire staff at a fair rate shouldn’t be punished because every McDonald’s on the planet abuses their workforce
I’m not sure why you’re bringing “fairness” into this. We’re not talking about one group that has wronged another. These are human behaviors and reaction to prior behaviors. There’s no system in place to enforce “fairness” in the way you’re talking about.
If you’re advocating for such a system to be created, then there’s some possibilities there such as employers certifying (under penalty of law) to treat employee candidates with certain rights, and likewise employee candidates could be certifed to actually hold the credentials the employer is requiring for the position. All of those rules will have to be set up and agreed to, and will cost money which has to come from somewhere. As of today, none of this exists. There is no entity enforcing “fairness” in the posting of positions or the application to those positions.
I’m not sure why you’re bringing “fairness” into this. We’re not talking about one group that has wronged another. These are human behaviors and reaction to prior behaviors. There’s no system in place to enforce “fairness” in the way you’re talking about.
Fair is subjective, but in the context specifics aren’t important beyond treating employees as people who deserve to be able to not starve to death or die of overworking.
If you’re advocating for such a system to be created, then there’s some possibilities there such as employers certifying (under penalty of law) to treat employee candidates with certain rights, and likewise employee candidates could be certifed to actually hold the credentials the employer is requiring for the position. All of those rules will have to be set up and agreed to, and will cost money which has to come from somewhere.
I don’t have anything specific I’m advocating for aside from the more common sense, foundational stuff like worker protections, social safety nets, and anti-monopoly law. That said, I don’t think a legally regulated job board would be a bad idea as a band-aid solution. Maybe I’m missing something, but I wouldn’t expect it to be difficult to develop or run. As you said, companies could set minimum requirements such as being with 50km, or having a specific degree. It could be used to help keep companies accountable too, such as requiring a minimum salary be listed or tieing it in to other government programs. In terms of funding, I expect fines for fraudulent postings and applications would be enough to fund most of it, but you could also potentially require something like a deposit on postings, to be returned when (and if) the position is filled. That said, this is entirely me spitballing,
Yep, I’m doing the same, so we’re in the same boat.
The difficulty is going to be adoption of any system. It will have to be carrot or stick…or both. As it stands, the only way I see this occurring is with government mandates, which means engaging politicians to craft legislation (at the state level at least). Before the above happens its going to have to get a lot worse for both employers and employees. There just isn’t enough positive or negative incentive yet to be adopted by society at-large so far.
One other possibility would be at the trade/professional association level. Perhaps say automotive mechanics and employers that hire mechanics. Like 90% of the ideas I think about someone’s already done them, or at least thought about them and identified some shortcoming I haven’t seen. Its entirely possible niche industries do this vetting and certifying of employer offered positions and employee candidates already.
Grow some fucking solidarity, bootlicker, you have more in common with a sweatshop worker in Sri Lanka than you do with your CEO.
E: I’m still waking up and misread “employer” for “employee”, but my point still stands: you’re a bootlicker who needs to grow some solidarity and realise that your employer sees you, and every other employee, as nothing but a dollar sign there to make them money, no matter how many times they tell you you’re “family”. Their interests will never deliberately intersect with yours unless it is so you produce more value for them.
I’m literally just compaining that the system as a whole has fallen apart. I don’t blame people for automated mass applications. Its the logical way to apply in this landscale, and doubly so if you’re trying to escape an even more hyper-capitalist country. I just want people to be able to pay their bills, and as it stands, that means finding a job. If wanting to be able to feed my family makes me a bootlicker, so be it.
That’s the cost of the companies hiring and firing a fuckton of people at once. If they don’t want that, they can give us stability. If they dont like the mass posting on their platforms, they can start having a more humane process.
Shoving it onto the consumer is just dumb. Plenty of very qualified people need to apply to hundreds of jobs to get one. Plenty of companies wasting time posting jobs they’ll never fill. He didn’t think this through one bit, and hiding the criticism behind “it’s just a thought” doesn’t make the criticism less valid.
It also tells us a lot about him for even thinking it was an idea. He’s completely disconnected with the realities of job hunting and the market.
Saying the problem is just because people hire and fire too often is such a massive oversimplification. If that was the main factor, the market wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as it is, and it wouldn’t take hundreds of applications just to get an interview. Theres a whole plethora of issues from governments of developed nations usually adding loopholes to labor laws for foreign workers to supress wages, to the complete lack of competition/antitrust enforcement, to the increased push from companies and moronic liberatarians to remove social safety nets forcing people into abusive jobs, to the number of buinesses that have discovered that they can just use postings to collect valuable data rather than to hire. This is what has caused the market to break down - bad employee retention doesn’t help, but that alone would be a small scale problem that weighs down the company practicing it.
If they dont like the mass posting on their platforms, they can start having a more humane process.
That was the reason I was complaining - even companies trying to hire honestly and humanely can’t function at this point. The whole system is starting to come apart because the few at the top are too greedy and incompetent to even attempt to fix things. We need actual, enforced worker protections, and we need those in power to stop trying to prop up megacompanies, or the system will just continue to cave in on itself.
if you’re a small business and are getting an “overwhelming” number of underqualified apps, then you’re probably trying to find a masters degree holder to take an associates degree position. regardless, sorting through apps/resumes is part of the process of running a business. the entire world isn’t obliged to make your job easier. fuck that. i have no sympathy whatsoever
Although this is obviously a dumb solution, I do get what he’s saying. Part of why the job market is so bad right now, is that there is a lot of people (often with the help of automation) sending out applications in bulk to companies they fail to meet even bare minimum requirements for. For example, its anecdotal, but a local company has given up on public postings because last time they tried, they received thousands of applications in a single day (most of which with no qualifications) and the ones they tried to reach out to weren’t even in the country. There are a lot of ways to help filter this, but it just highlights what a mess things are right now.
But this is a direct result of employers actions with incomplete or deceptive job postings, bad faith interviews, and ghosting prospective candidates.
Employers aren’t a collective either though, and while abusive employers drive workers to this, more desirable positions (often with better companies) are the ones who bear the brunt of this. The new doctors office looking to hire staff at a fair rate shouldn’t be punished because every McDonald’s on the planet abuses their workforce, nor should the workers who are actually able to work and now have a harder time finding work.
I’m not sure why you’re bringing “fairness” into this. We’re not talking about one group that has wronged another. These are human behaviors and reaction to prior behaviors. There’s no system in place to enforce “fairness” in the way you’re talking about.
If you’re advocating for such a system to be created, then there’s some possibilities there such as employers certifying (under penalty of law) to treat employee candidates with certain rights, and likewise employee candidates could be certifed to actually hold the credentials the employer is requiring for the position. All of those rules will have to be set up and agreed to, and will cost money which has to come from somewhere. As of today, none of this exists. There is no entity enforcing “fairness” in the posting of positions or the application to those positions.
Fair is subjective, but in the context specifics aren’t important beyond treating employees as people who deserve to be able to not starve to death or die of overworking.
I don’t have anything specific I’m advocating for aside from the more common sense, foundational stuff like worker protections, social safety nets, and anti-monopoly law. That said, I don’t think a legally regulated job board would be a bad idea as a band-aid solution. Maybe I’m missing something, but I wouldn’t expect it to be difficult to develop or run. As you said, companies could set minimum requirements such as being with 50km, or having a specific degree. It could be used to help keep companies accountable too, such as requiring a minimum salary be listed or tieing it in to other government programs. In terms of funding, I expect fines for fraudulent postings and applications would be enough to fund most of it, but you could also potentially require something like a deposit on postings, to be returned when (and if) the position is filled. That said, this is entirely me spitballing,
Yep, I’m doing the same, so we’re in the same boat.
The difficulty is going to be adoption of any system. It will have to be carrot or stick…or both. As it stands, the only way I see this occurring is with government mandates, which means engaging politicians to craft legislation (at the state level at least). Before the above happens its going to have to get a lot worse for both employers and employees. There just isn’t enough positive or negative incentive yet to be adopted by society at-large so far.
One other possibility would be at the trade/professional association level. Perhaps say automotive mechanics and employers that hire mechanics. Like 90% of the ideas I think about someone’s already done them, or at least thought about them and identified some shortcoming I haven’t seen. Its entirely possible niche industries do this vetting and certifying of employer offered positions and employee candidates already.
And here lies the fucking problem.
Grow some fucking solidarity, bootlicker, you have more in common with a sweatshop worker in Sri Lanka than you do with your CEO.
E: I’m still waking up and misread “employer” for “employee”, but my point still stands: you’re a bootlicker who needs to grow some solidarity and realise that your employer sees you, and every other employee, as nothing but a dollar sign there to make them money, no matter how many times they tell you you’re “family”. Their interests will never deliberately intersect with yours unless it is so you produce more value for them.
Workers of the world unite.
Fuck self serving bootlickers.
I’m literally just compaining that the system as a whole has fallen apart. I don’t blame people for automated mass applications. Its the logical way to apply in this landscale, and doubly so if you’re trying to escape an even more hyper-capitalist country. I just want people to be able to pay their bills, and as it stands, that means finding a job. If wanting to be able to feed my family makes me a bootlicker, so be it.
That’s the cost of the companies hiring and firing a fuckton of people at once. If they don’t want that, they can give us stability. If they dont like the mass posting on their platforms, they can start having a more humane process.
Shoving it onto the consumer is just dumb. Plenty of very qualified people need to apply to hundreds of jobs to get one. Plenty of companies wasting time posting jobs they’ll never fill. He didn’t think this through one bit, and hiding the criticism behind “it’s just a thought” doesn’t make the criticism less valid.
It also tells us a lot about him for even thinking it was an idea. He’s completely disconnected with the realities of job hunting and the market.
Saying the problem is just because people hire and fire too often is such a massive oversimplification. If that was the main factor, the market wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as it is, and it wouldn’t take hundreds of applications just to get an interview. Theres a whole plethora of issues from governments of developed nations usually adding loopholes to labor laws for foreign workers to supress wages, to the complete lack of competition/antitrust enforcement, to the increased push from companies and moronic liberatarians to remove social safety nets forcing people into abusive jobs, to the number of buinesses that have discovered that they can just use postings to collect valuable data rather than to hire. This is what has caused the market to break down - bad employee retention doesn’t help, but that alone would be a small scale problem that weighs down the company practicing it.
That was the reason I was complaining - even companies trying to hire honestly and humanely can’t function at this point. The whole system is starting to come apart because the few at the top are too greedy and incompetent to even attempt to fix things. We need actual, enforced worker protections, and we need those in power to stop trying to prop up megacompanies, or the system will just continue to cave in on itself.
Waaaaaahhhhh :'( We shat in the pool for years and now we can’t go swimming because other people think it’s okay to shit in our pool, too!
those poor victimized CEOs…
This hurts everyone, and hurts employees and small businesses most. A big company has far more resources to deal with spam applications.
yea, no.
if you’re a small business and are getting an “overwhelming” number of underqualified apps, then you’re probably trying to find a masters degree holder to take an associates degree position. regardless, sorting through apps/resumes is part of the process of running a business. the entire world isn’t obliged to make your job easier. fuck that. i have no sympathy whatsoever
nO oNe wAnTs tO WorK aNyMoRe
Points out that companies are no longer advertising jobs.
Still finds a way to blame jobseekers.
Boot can’t really taste that good, can it? Not to kink shame, but is it that you simply enjoy being stomped on?