Work and quality of life > filling time to satisfy timecards
Well then the boomer bitches can pay enough for us to live 10-15 mins from work, not a 2 hr drive in rush hour. This close eyed brutal existence they are forcing on us is about to implode on them. The barbarians kicked over the oil, they dropped their torches into it, and they are currently sharpening sticks to roast the ruling class with. This is not a damn game. You stole our lives from us, now we want yours. (The actual life, not your quality of living)
I am fresh off a rather interesting conversation with my boomer boss. I’m a new manager and I’m working on policy and process. I was basically shut down, told to not bother documenting, that we have a way of doing things and he would spend every day with me for weeks to get it right if he had to.
I asked again, wouldn’t it be easier and more efficient to have these processes documented and accepted rather than force muscle memory? I even offered to document the process during our training sessions but was told that were a small company and no one will look at documentation if we create it (we’re a 2000 employee manufacturing company).
Oh well, I know how to work around obstinance and he’s pretty old.
That’s crazy. Anyone who is against documentation should not have a job that requires literacy.
Think there’s a balance.
I work at a company where they have a documented process for everything. The thing is once some thing is in a document, it’s like some written in stone mandate that becomes unchangeable and inflexible. The stuff in the “oral tradition” remains flexible.
Every so often new blood comes along, sees how dysfunctional the documented processes are, and proposes to fix the processes. Now in principle, they are right, but those of us who have been through a few iterations dread the outcome. Invariably the changes they propose to replace stupid existing processes are instead just added to existing processes, because some folks recognize the improvement but no one wants the blame for a mistake caused by leaving the old process behind. So each time we end up with more redundant stupid work.
So while in principle, documented processes are right, sometimes the political reality is stupid.
The. Your company is doing lean six sigma wrong…if at all. Processes are supposed to improve and change all the time.
What is actually needed is the flexibility to do it.
It really doesn’t matter for the task if I’m physically present between 8:15-16:15 instead of 8:00-16:00.
If I have to be at my desk at 8 sharp, I will hit the rush hour both ways, having to leave my home at least 20 minutes earlier and waste that time in congestion for no good reason. I’ll be home about the same time, because the only difference is how long I get to stare at the steering wheel.
I don’t care if the one option that saves me 1-2 hours of unpaid time every week is considered “tardy” by boomers. In my gen-x point of view, a lot of their lifestyle is wasteful for no other reason than selfmade “traditions”.
It depends on the job. For most office jobs, I don’t think it matters that much if you show up a bit late to go to the bank or if you’re stuck in traffic, especially now that holding online meetings are easy.
But for a job where being late means holding up the work of hundreds of people, say, being an actor on set, then showing up ahead of time is very important.
When I got my first office job (after working retail and the like), I was uncomfortable when people would have a conversation and not be productive. It was burned into me that one should work at all times while “on the clock.” I learned the phrase, “time to lean is time to clean,” when working at a restaurant.
We really walk on people who work in service jobs. It’s not right.
Why did you have to bring Vin Diesel into this?
I mean, just because you’re on TV and get paid a lot of money doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply to you.
Used to be a phone salesman. Got there at least 15 minutes late every day. It got so bad that one time I got there 15 minutes early and when my boss saw me get there he shouted “Steve?! What time is it?!”. Nobody cared because I outsold everyone else by so much that I was making double what they were, until the boss of my boss’ boss decided to start micromanaging the branch and basically told me I would be fired unless I started showing up on time. Boomers have weird priorities.
Their weird priorities is because they were raised with the dumbass idea that showing up early somehow increased production and is rewarding. Hell I showed up 15 minutes early everyday and the boomer was still pissed because he didn’t want to pay the overtime. Can’t even make up their minds!
Meh. It’s all about power. Same reason tucking in your shirt and being clean shaven is a big thing for some boomer execs, it’s just some bullshit they can’t use to force people to conform
This seems more likely. The same guy also wanted me to buy a suit because jeans and military boots give clients a bad image of the company. We did all of our business through the phone.
He probably wanted you to buy a suit, but wouldn’t give you a stipend for it if you asked
Downvote if you will but it is just rude to show up late regardless of your performance or the situation. Period.
It’s a job. Imagine having literally any respect for it.
Nah. Don’t be so uptight. The 4 emails that I received during off hours will still be there if the insane amount of construction they keep starting but not finishing in my city causes me to be 10 mins late that morning.
Really depends on the job.
If you complete all assigned tasks on time and don’t inhibit anyone else’s schedule, then who gives a shit?
If it’s shift work and someone is waiting for you to arrive so they can start their work, or worse, end their shift and go home, then yeah it’s a huge dick move.
I mean yes in practise and if you put it that way of course.
I’m just saying that as a general rule you should be on time.
I’m with the zoomers on this one, honestly. If the workload is independent then there is no reason to demand what time the person gets started on that work load if it’s going to take the same amount of time. Yes, there are jobs where its time sensitive or assisting customers so obviously you need to be in place by a certain time, but that is not universal.
And it cuts both ways, if you consider it rude for a person to not show up by a mandated, arbitrary time, it’s equally rude to mandate a meeting or other function a person has to show up to that has nothing do with their job. I’ve been in the workforce nearly 20 years now, and frankly the number of meetings, events or functions I’ve been expected to go to that served no purpose other than to waste my damn time is way too high. The meeting could have been an email, the training might as well have been a check box, and if the party/event was so damn important why wasn’t I paid to attend?
TL;DR unless a person being late directly affects another person, then who cares? I’ll start caring about what a corporation thinks is rude when said corporations start giving a damn about my time and compensating properly for wasting it.
I agree. We will be the first to call out employers who want you to arrive early to load up systems to be ready to take calls at start time. I see this as the same.
I want to get paid for the time I give, nothing more and nothing less.
That’s unambitious. I want to be paid for the value my work creates. Time is a finite resource. Trading it for (in all likelihood not enough) money so other people can get rich is a sucker move.
That’s not what you sign up for, ever except maybe c suite negotiations where you get bonuses based on performance. A job is not a trade of value. It is literally paying you for your time since most jobs are unskilled manual labor you can train on the job.
I want to be paid for getting the job done, not for being a body in a seat for a specific number of hours regardless of how much work there is to do.
Sometimes the job is being available, being a body in a seat.
And often it is not, but still treated that way by managers.
Nah, ten minutes don’t matter.
The boomers are dying out. It’s a self solving problem.
Millennials are five years away from Get Off My Lawn years old tho.
I’m an elder millennial, a lot fi my friends are sharing very boomer-esque “back when I was a kid, things were better because of XYZ.” Millennials are not the panacea you want them to be. A lot of them are just as dumb as boomers and these problems are systemic, not generational.
Survivorship bias applies to memory as much as anything else.
Not fast enough
Maybe if the fucking workplace wasn’t so fucking far from home, or if public transportation was decent, people would be much less likely to arrive late at work.
The other thing is, as soon as you realize that your job could be remote, which is true for a lot of office stuff, being “on time” matters fuck all.
All of the neighborhoods within walking or cycling distance of my workplace are literal crack dens where I’d be mugged and/or robbed within a week.
Force employers to pay hourly wages for at home prep and commuting and they will suddenly start caring about hiring people in their area
I’ve always thought not compensating for commutes was ridiculous. Ive demanded 15k raises for jobs because they wanted me to drive.
This really depends on what you’re doing.
If you’re in IT nobody should care. If you’re doing an artillery barrage then being late could mean a lot of your people die.
Highly dependent on what you do for work. But if Bob the Bookstore Manager wants me to treat a cashier job with the same respect as a military mission then he better be willing to issue me a rifle and a 400,000 dollar life insurance policy
I actually think I’m with the boomers on this one. You should strive to be on time. No need to make a federal case out of occasionally being a little late, but it’s wrong to be constantly late.
Depends on the job
If I need to be 100% on time, then I’m 100% leaving on time.
Every job I’ve had I’m one of if not the first to stay late. Need me to work a double even if it’s not my job next? Not a problem boss. But be cool with me being 5-10 minutes late. I’ll try to be there on time, but shit happens.
But if your gunna come at me for being a little late, I’ll be damned if I’m gunna stay late to help you. Pick your battles
I wasn’t arguing any different. By all means leave on time.
But this is part of why it is disrespectful. Look at nurses. If you are late, patients in a hospital can’t just go without care. So that means the prior shift is asked to stay later. That’s just one example.
I get where you’re coming from. It is nice to your fellow employees to be on time to relieve them. That’s just being a solid team player.
But again, every team or job I’ve had understands if I’m a little late cause they know I’m putting in the work when I get there. Shit, after I got into a motorcycle accident and was bleeding down my side I still had the driver take me to work to talk to my boss. Stayed until the concussion made me leave haha. My boss at the time would tell that story to people who were a bit sluggish. Saying how even on the worst days there’s no reason to not give it your all since YourPartnerInCrime came in half dead.
In hindsight it was a bit dumb. But, don’t complain about me being 5 to 10 minutes late. I’ll be there and I’ll give it all.
Exactly. If you’re paying me from 8:00-5:00 I am starting at exactly 8:00. If my computer takes 5 minutes to boot, connect, etc., that starts happening at 8:00. If you want me online and responsive at 8:00, then you have to pay me for the boot time before 8:00. No pay, no work.
Worked retail and the end of shift crew always had to wait to leave at the same time with some bag check BS. Pile of shit thieving corporate and management would adjust the time to cut out payment of the last 5 or so minutes. The company is now defunct (taken out by vulture investment group owner entity after it was sold), otherwise it would have been nice to call the department of whatever deals with wage theft on them now that I know better. A.k.a.: if your company does time adjustments silently, consider this your signal and call the inspectors on them.
It really depends on what you do. If you’re in a factory and the entire line is held up or someone is staying extra time from a previous shift then it’s a big deal. If you’re late to the daily IT stand up meeting you can get the notes from Brad.
Some jobs are more critical than others, sure, but it’s still disrespectful to make people constantly have to cover for you. Why does Brad constantly have to give you notes? What if both Brad and you are late?
If Brad is late then we get to go home, 15 minute rule, just like in school.
No but seriously, Brad is anyone who was there. Someone should be taking notes and sending them in a follow up. Because not everyone is going to be there all the time. Make your systems around people and they’ll work better than just holding everyone up and getting mad.
And if no one is there?
I’m not saying everyone has to get mad over occasional tardiness. But when one employee decides his time is more important than mine because I always have to cover for them, and they are always missing when we start, fuck yes, I will be mad at them, not just as a boss, but as a fellow employee. Have some respect for your fellow workers.
Then you obviously have a structural issue.
And here we have another person assuming being late is a choice. This really is a toxic attitude.
The structural issue is having people constantly late.
And, yes, constantly being late IS A CHOICE. I’m not talking about hitting traffic, the kid or pet being sick, having to deal with an emergency, or stuff like that. I’m talking about people that are repeatedly, constantly, late to everything. People are not just born to perpetually be late.
It really depends what you do. If you’re just strolling in to your desk and writing code, wgaf. But fuck anyone that schedules meetings for 8am.
We always scheduled meetings 30 minutes after latest start time which was 9.
As long as you made it to the meeting if it was scheduled and did your full hours, no one cared.
Im always 1 to 2 hours late, sometimes I dont even show up and have a body double go in for me, and I keep getting raises. Don’t worry I give the double a raise too
Why?
Because others have to pick up your slack. Because others have to waste their time waiting around for you. Because it’s unfair to other staff that wind up working longer than you.
Or they could just not either
Not an option if you expect to stay in business.
So it’s up to labor to work extra hard so the boss can own a business? Yikes.
If the labor wants to have a job, yes.
It’s sad that workers can’t even imagine a world where they are in control
Because it often fucks over others who are either overworking themselves pulling your load or can’t take their own break or lunch because you are late
Or they can also refuse to take on extra work. Why are we assuming that the amount of work the boss sets is the exact amount that must be done?
In my experience at the lower rungs of retail, the bosses will assign 100% of your non-break time to 80% of the work that needs to be done. I have far more experience with understaffing than busy-work.
It seems like this is more nuanced than simply black and white. Of all the jobs I’ve worked, about half of them had/have any ramifications for being late.
One job I had, if I wasn’t on time to start the production process, the evening crew would have to stay later to finish. My current job on the other hand is WFH and project-oriented, so as long as I’m not late to a meeting, I could start 2 hours later and finish 2 hours later.
The question is why anyone would answer “why” have they never worked any of the types of job where people depend on each others effort in real time? Like 99.9% of low end jobs are like that.
Baby Boomers, if were going to generalize, often feel the boss has ass-grabbing privileges with the attractive employees, so their opinion may not amount for much in the 21st century.
Except among the ruling class, of course, where we leave demented and senile representatives in power until it is wrested from their cold dead hands.
until it is wrested from their cold dead hands.
Does the wresting happen often or do most folks just wait for Father Time to do all the work? :( lol
Let me tell you the story of a man named Luigi…
Study shows researchers never worked for any of my awesomely tolerant boomer bosses - and I’ve had many.
“i don’t appreciate you being tardy”
“Say what? What did you just call me?”
Me, moving to the US as a kid when “tardy” is seldom used where im from. I honestly thought my English teacher was calling me retarded…
She was mean, but definitely not that mean.
“I don’t feel tardy!”
I’ve always heard there’s a 15 minute grace period before they consider you late and basically everywhere (except Wal-Mart) I’ve ever worked has honored that.
In nursing if you’re not on time for report the outgoing shift will meet you at the door with pitchforks. But my guess is that at Walmart you don’t have to pass on six different people’s life stories accurately enough to not risk killing them every change of shift before the previous one is legally allowed to leave the building so I’m admittedly somewhat confused as to why they would care…
Yeah, and in the same nursing job they will look at you as a bad nurse if you don’t copy the entire fucking chart on your little piece of paper. I don’t need meemaw’s apgar score(an assessment of infants after birth for you non nurses). Gimmie the highlights and get the fuck out.
In psych my pet peeve is reporting patient’s bowel movements in unit-wide report. Unless it was in the hall, on someone, or the first one in two weeks; SAVE IT FOR INDIVIDUAL NIRSE-TO-NURSE.
It’s a power thing, their shoplifting policy is unbelievably strict for similar reasons. They will straight up ruin your life simply because the cashier forgot to scan a 50 cent lollipop.
(My confusion was largely rhetorical ;)
