In an impassioned and at times furious speech, departing Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley defiantly proclaimed that the US military does not swear an oath to a “wannabe dictator.”
It was a bitter and pointed swipe that appeared unmistakably targeted at former President Donald Trump, who has in recent days accused Milley of “treason” and suggested that he should be put to death for his conduct surrounding Trump’s bid in 2021 to remain in office despite losing the presidential election.
“We are unique among the world’s militaries,” Milley said. “We don’t take an oath to a country, we don’t take an oath to a tribe, we don’t take an oath to a religion. We don’t take an oath to a king, or a queen, or a tyrant or a dictator.”
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close to half of America is voting for a twice/impeached treasonous draft-dodging rapist coward.
It’s more like a third that has an outsized influence due to gerrymandering and disincentivizing voters. Still, the fact that it is that many and Trump actually stands a chance of re-election shows what a dumpster fire the country is.
While I question the intelligence of the MAGA crowd as well, I feel like I have to constantly remind people that the other half of the people who would vote for him are really voting against neoliberalism, even tho they can’t describe it as such.
They’ll say globalism, they might even take a swipe at wall street or corporations. NAFTA, “Elites” etc etc.
They’re struggling just like everyone else due to late stage capitalism and they don’t care how it ends, just that it does.
Mind you theyre also statistically white and think they’ll be in the in group when our money becomes less valuable than toilet paper and weather it all fine, which is delusional.
There’s the haves and the have nots. Even security for the rich, after the walls fell, will still be servants, not equals.
I say all this so those inclined can see there is actually a good amount of material we all agree on, and if you can approach it without instigating their pearl clutch reflex, some can even be brought into the light.
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That’s not a solution and you know it. I feel ya my man, I do.
You don’t need sympathy for them. You don’t need to forgive anyone for them - you do that shit for yourself, so you’ll be free of the negativity of their weight and move forward clear of them.
Don’t let them define the limits of your virtues. Don’t let anyone tell you who you are (which is essentially the same thing). That’s for you to tell them.
Most are probably a lost cause. Not all, for sure. Look at them like you would a wounded animal and for reasons we don’t know they blame us. It’s much easier to understand and anticipate, therefore mitigate the pain they’re choosing to propagate. But over generations…we can teach their children tolerance. And patience. Hence their war on education (the ones showing up at PTA meetings, not the ones trying to loot the budget).
I’m one of the first to respond to fascist violence with violence. Fighting nazis is a great family tradition of mine, going back 80 years. I’m no Gandhi, MLK. I’m much more aligned with Malcolm and Hampton. I’ll let the Gandhi’s have the mic and lead from the ideals, but while theyre sheparding the high road, I’m defending on the low road.
I say that because if the answer is to just damn half the population, then you’ve got to put more effort into your answer. Or just do what I do, which is let others more eloquent elucidate. I don’t need to sway anyone’s opinions, hell sometimes I’m the last person who should have the mic. Knowing this is a strength, not a weakness.
What I do know is that Hate isn’t the way. Every spiritual or moral teacher in history has said the same thing. But I don’t need hate to fight, simply resignation to the task at hand, like putting down a wounded animal. If anything it makes me more cognizant in the moment.
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An attitude they share as well. Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Ya gotta leave them able to see. And then show them you have the same capacity for cruelty, but only dole it harsh to the ringleaders.
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That attitude is illusionary and will get you nowhere, don’t forget that you and your radical group do not have any significant backing from society and that you WILL be arrested and put on trial if you attempt to take unlawful actions like violating a person’s bodily integrity or destroying property. The world doesn’t revolve around you, there are millions more reasonable people for each single one of violent radicals like yourself.
I don’t need to sway anyone’s opinions,
Yet you wrote a wall of text trying to do just that.
Malicious ignorance is the real pandemic.
It’s so funny to read this cause I’ve seen similar posts in conservative communities, only inverted.
That’s a great point. Seeing the current state of US politics this way might be the first step in steering it towards some sort of normalcy.
It’s a problem of the left being incapable of effectively communicating with the working class. Leftists are self obsessed and are seeking approval of of other leftists. They want to be lauded for being the smartest people in the room, and don’t actually care about the working class. They want to be congratulated (and sometimes well paid) for pretending to care about the working class
While leftists talk about the working class being too stupid to recognize them as the people they should put in positions of power, they don’t consider the possibility that no one trusts someone that assumes that they’re too stupid to understand what’s best for them. And when you consider how incompetent leftists are in communicating with the people they’re supposedly trying to help, who’s actually the stupid people in this whole thing?
Biden’s push in promoting unions and prosecuting anti-trust will help the working class and lessen the power of the corporations far more than anything all of the leftists will accomplish in their entire lives.
You and the guy you replied to worded it so well. I am a moderate and an unaffiliated voter so noticing the extremes is easy. Their alignments are similar but their tactics are different. The right knows how to talk to the working class which is their strength. Anytime I have voiced criticism about the extremist left there is no conversation or willingness to learn, just demeaning redoric. Mainly how stupid I am or how I should kill myself. I don’t blame them as I was once very liberal myself but noticed the fallicies and became more moderate as I got older. Their inability to humble themselves or try to understand someone else’s thinking prevents them from really bringing anyone over to their side. It’s a “Holier Than Thou” complex that makes them believe they are better than everyone, know better than everyone, and those who oppose them are inheritly evil. Unfortunately this is not how you recruit allies and not how the world work in general.
While previous OP are articulate in their posts they are way off by a lot. Framing liberals as elitists is pure propaganda invented by hate radio. The real issue is millions of minds have been poisoned by conservative rhetoric which is patently false. Conservatives don’t know how to talk to the working class, they know how to stroke fear and division for political gain.
Your words about extremist lefties is a great example of the kind of nonsense the conservatives have gotten people to believe. You are essentially entering the conversation already pre-loaded with bullshit rhetoric. People who are intelligent about the issues are turned off by this and don’t want to engage with you other than to tell you off.
The problem isn’t with them it is you. You have already bought into the horseshit of hate media. You are intellectually dishonest without even knowing it. You are another casualty of the division which is exactly what these fuckers want.
The issue with your statement is I don’t listen to or follow political sides. I just make my own decernments based on what I experience. Most political statements via the news or social media are propaganda for both sides so you have to parse the information to find the truth and I am not waisting my time on that. I base what I say on my experiences and interactions with the people of each party. Republicans have their issues and so do Democrats.
You are exactly the person I described in my earlier writing. Unable to listen and learn because you are stuck in your thinking and unable to see outside your box. I hope the irony isn’t lost on you. My family growing up was Republican and I was Democrat when I got older but ultimately noticed they were both very flawed and decided to become centrist and unaffiliated for voting.
People who are “intelligent” about the issues fall in the same boat as you. Unable to see past their own hubris and Holier Than Thou thinking to see that they have fallen for their parties propaganda to see that they have been indoctrinated just like Republicans have. Republicans and Democrats are just two sides of the same coin.
People are calling you out on your shit because there is no “extremist left.” It’s a conservative talking point (that’s false by the way) that they always use. At most, Democrats are essentially less extreme conservatives right now.
There is, however, an extreme right that has passed all these in 2023 alone:
"Over 520 anti-LGBTQ+ bills have been introduced in state legislatures, a record;
Over 220 bills specifically target transgender and non-binary people, also a record."
You’re not seeing “both sides.” You are quite literally just lying. Democrats at current are the most boring and careful party ever right now. They aren’t my ideal but they definitely aren’t “teh extreme left.” Please.
First I didn’t say the right wasn’t extreme and the fact you can’t see extremism in your faction shows your blinded to the truth. There are extremes on both sides regardless of what propaganda you want to believe or not believe. People aren’t calling me out on my shit since it’s just “kill yourself” or “Your and idiot” as retorts. These are the “intelligent” people you speak of.
I didn’t start this as a way to convince you that your rose colored glasses are skewing your view or that your perception is wrong because that is your perception and honesty it isn’t worth the work to change it for some random person on the Internet because that never works.
I was saying my perception and experiences with the people of the Internet and some irl have led me to see that extremism exists on both sides.
I am going to stop replying because I have already spent too much time on someone who really isn’t worth it, that isn’t just you, it is all political social interactions on the Internet. So I will leave you with this.
Any faction is corrupt or corruptible. There will always be propaganda for each one to indoctrinate those who have some aligning beliefs. Hell I fell for it for years as a registered Democrat. There are people who mean well in their own way on each side and those who mean to use those well meaning people for their own ends. On the other hand there are people who just fight for the sake of fighting. The people make it matter but in my experience they are the ones that hurt it the most by repeating the propaganda like it’s the bible, on both sides. Know that these interactions are truly pointless and a waste of time.
I wish you the best in your endeavors.
First, you are full of shit. The problem is clearly you and you are probably just trolling at this point so my apologies for feeding you.
Two sides of the same coin is such a tired rhetoric at this point. To say I don’t pick sides while regurgitating conservative talking points is almost comical. Pretending to be a Democrat from a Republican household is another bullshit red flag. Do try improving your material in the future.
Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.
That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives anymore.
They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?
– Julius Goat
well technically between a fifth and a quarter of America voted for Trump last time.
THAT is how stupid America is.
Democracy as usual. The real problem is that they either vote for personalities or for policies, while it should be both - a wrong personality plainly won’t deliver, a wrong policy is wrong no matter the personality.
People who were voting for him after Obama’s time voted against weakness, hypocrisy, establishment, general perceived progress slowing down (in the 90-s and early 00-s there were many cool things on TV, in computer industry, in space, in art etc, while during Obama’s years it was all the same, boring and corporate, and the Web among other things was enshittened in that time period).
Now the second time I guess it’s as good as protest voting, and some are really just stupid.
That’s why he wants to get back in, to finish the job and become an actual dictator.
From Limp Dick Potato to Dictator - The Donald Trump Story
From 'tater Dick to Dictator - Donald Trump’s Tumultuous Struggle to Get It Up
Damnit yours is way better.
Do you do that professionally?
Are you asking if they are a fluffer?
Asking? Hell it seems pretty obvious!
Are you asking about my ability to amusingly alliterate an alternate articulation of another’s annotation?
Or rather, are you rendering a repartee, as if to say I’m renowned for my role in rousing reluctantly reticent reproductive rods to rigidity?
Decades from now, I’ll think of this comment with regret for not heeding your warning, as I breathe my last breaths hiding in some steampunk cave, hunted by stormtrooper drones, starving and without any resources, the last outpost of hope… then the lights dim as the power runs out. “Fucking potato…” final breath… eyes close.
I hear it was more of a mushroom dick.
*Dicktater
Penis potato.
Chud spud.
President Donald Trump, who has in recent days accused Milley of “treason” and suggested that he should be put to death for his conduct surrounding Trump’s bid in 2021 to remain in office despite losing the presidential election.
no u.
It’s comically simple how transparent fuckheads like him become once you tune into the pattern. Accusations are confessions, gaslight, obstruct, project, and all that
I also think he was trying to get ahead of this news of Milley criticizing him. In MAGA world, now Milley only did that to ‘get back’ at Trump.
… We’ll see. There’s a lot of anti-American MAGAts in law enforcement and paramilitary organizations.
We have an infestation of Republican fascists, and no one can say how that’s going to play out over the next couple of years.
Trump’s military followers don’t give a shit about the constitution, they believe America and it’s government is about what they as Americans (the real ones) want.
They act like they believe the constitution is a magical document able to agree with them no matter how they charge their opinion, adapting to internal inconsistencies and all. And if the constitution agrees with them no matter what, it doesn’t matter beyond being an authority to appeal to for the sake of controlling others.
They act like they believe the constitution is a magical document able to agree with them no matter how they charge their opinion, adapting to internal inconsistencies and all.
Hey, that’s also exactly how they treat the Bible!
Don’t need literacy when you have imagination and confidence.
It’s very convenient that god would speak to them through such accessible means.
I still vividly remember watching the Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Miley personally escorting Donald Trump through peaceful protesters being beaten and gassed to a Church Trump had never been to, to hold up a bible Trump had never read. Don’t try selling me Mark fucking Miley, that fucking fascist enabler can go straight to hell.
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Milley has been very clear about his regrets for having been there, and understands that what he did was wrong. It’s a lot easier with hindsight to think “Well, as soon as he realized what was going on, he should have left,” or “He should have made these kinds of strong statements against his being dragged into that photo op much earlier.”
That all happened on June 1, 2020, long before the election in November of the same year, and long before the events which Trump and other have now been indicted for in Georgia and the DC Circuit.
There must be a way for people to be redeemed for their past actions, and I believe that Milley’s statements go a very long way in that direction.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ll just add:
“Well, as soon as he realized what was going on, he should have left”
He did.
Milley realized too late that Trump, who continued across the street to pose for a now-infamous photo while standing in front of a vandalized church, was manipulating him into a visual endorsement of his martial approach to the demonstrations. Though Milley left the entourage before it reached the church, the damage was significant. “We’re getting the fuck out of here,” Milley said to his security chief. “I’m fucking done with this shit.” Esper would later say that he and Milley had been duped.
“He should have made these kinds of strong statements against his being dragged into that photo op much earlier.”
He said this within a week, if that counts:
The week afterward, in a commencement address to the National Defense University, he apologized to the armed forces and the country. “I should not have been there,” he said.
As far as I’m aware, any comment he has ever made regarding the incident he has said it was a mistake.
Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/11/general-mark-milley-trump-coup/675375/
Excellent. There is nothing wrong with Milley in the context of that event; in fact, there is everything right about his actions. Thank you for fact checking me.
In no way intended to be a check, just more context. You nailed it.
Well, I wasn’t aware of the facts you brought, and my earlier comment was written on the false assumption that Milley had stayed on through the whole photo op, and that he hadn’t really said anything about it until what I have heard very recently.
Whether you intended to check or not, I am checked, and I like it that way. You have made me better now than I was seven hours ago.
This is incredible. How do you have all this knowledge at the ready?
“reading”
I read the Atlantic article when it first came out. Was a really good read and stuck with me.
Mf was the only reason I had any hope the military would stand against fascism. I didn’t know we were debating his merits.
It’s a scene from an antichrist apocalypse movie.
They got me too, dang it
A true patriot would have snapped his neck and taken the punishment in service to the greater good.
That’s the type of person Trump thought Mad Dog Mattis was, because the nickname isn’t indicative to who Mattis is, Trump was put off with Mattis’s “warrior philosopher” schtick and Mattis in turn was put off when he realized Trump’s fascist strongman persona wasn’t an act.
As a former Marine who respects Mattis, I was deeply disappointed that he couldn’t see through Trump’s bullshit earlier on.
I’m sure he could tell. I just think he thought he could help, but eventually resigned when he realized that he was less effective than he expected he would be, and refused to be complicit in the administration.
Dude could’ve made himself into a folk hero
Nah, that shitbrick would have been a perpetual martyr. Better that he gets publically kicked in the dick over and over instead.
Exactly. If Trump dies anything but a natural death, he will be a martyr. Hell, even if he dies a natural death you can bet no small number of them will blame the Democrats, LGBTQ+, BIPOC, and whoever else they can that they secretly murdered him. Trump could die with a cheeseburger lodged in his throat and they’d say libruls did it.
Face it, no matter which way the man dies, he’s going to be a martyr, the only thing that can be controlled is how much of one he is.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In an impassioned and at times furious speech, departing Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley defiantly proclaimed that the US military does not swear an oath to a “wannabe dictator.”
And his tenure as chairman has provoked fierce debate among military experts: Was Milley too willing to wade into the realm of domestic politics, or did he stand in the breach to protect a democracy in peril?
On Friday, as he handed over the reins of the chairmanship to Gen. CQ Brown, the embattled Army general gave a fierce defense of his view of the military’s defining ethos: to defend, if necessary with the life’s blood of those in uniform, the Constitution of the United States.
House Speaker Kevin McCarthy appears to lack the votes to pass a last-ditch stopgap bill to extend government funding beyond Saturday.
Two days after the attack on the Capitol, Milley – concerned that Trump “had gone into a serious mental decline” and might “go rogue” – instructed senior operations officers from the National Military Command Center not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved, according to Bob Woodward and Robert Costa’s book, “Peril.”
He also made a now-controversial phone call in the days following the attack intended to reassure Beijing that the United States was stable and that it was not considering a military strike on China.
The original article contains 962 words, the summary contains 225 words. Saved 77%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Relevant Beau of the Fifth Column:
So… if they don’t swear an oath to a country, to whom are they sworn?
They swear an oath to uphold The Constitution of the United States of America
The Constitution…
United States Army Oath of Enlistment
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”
This is the oath of enlistment, not the oath commissioned officers take. Officers only swear to uphold the Constitution.
United States Army Oath of Commissioned Officers
“I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God”
Only difference is no promise to follow the presidents orders.
and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me
They may not swear an oath to him, but they do swear to follow his orders.
… according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
That last bit negates any requirement to obey unlawful orders.
True, they still have to uphold the constitution; but if a tyrannical government changes it or interprets it differently, then it isn’t necessarily unlawful or against the constitution to follow a tyrannical order. And that’s scary.
That’s a pretty stupid tautology. “If they change the law, it’s not illegal.” And?
There are no laws that can’t be changed. That’s why you need to vote in all elections.
…according to regulations and the UCMJ
You missed that part. If the POTUS orders them to do something against regulations (and against the constitution) then they have a duty to refuse those orders.
They really hammered this home in basic. I remember being really suprised by it, having thought as an airman basic I had to do anything I was ordered without question.
Now, the truth is, for your everyday enlisted person, the chances of being given an actually illegal order is basically 0.
Still, it was nice to know that there are mechanisms is place to protect me if I was told to do something truly horrible.
Yeah, watching Nazis get prosecuted after World War 2 was a good wake-up call. The armed forces realized that “I was just following orders” wasn’t a viable defense, and they really started pushing the fact that service members had a duty to refuse obviously illegal orders.
Does no one remember Captain John Sheridan?
Do not follow illegal orders.
❤️
There’s are YOUR sons, YOUR daughters! And they have come home.
I think about the overall “President Clark” scenario a lot more these days, after the last former president.
That is true. The President also swears to uphold and defend the constitution. Ordinarily that isn’t a problem.
Sadly in Milleys case it was a problem and he was left in a a largly untenable position.Just to add, officers take a different oath that doesn’t include the obeying orders line:
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
You say that like they swear specifically to obey Trump’s orders. Not their fault who was voted into office.
Not in the oath for Officers.
Not “him” the office.
The swear an oath to uphold the constitution. It’s a relatively minor difference between swearing to a country. Basically, soldiers have a duty to refuse orders that they know to be illegal, even if those orders are coming from the POTUS. So if the POTUS tries to order all of the generals to DSP something against the constitution, they have a duty to refuse; Because they haven’t sworn an oath to the POTUS; They’ve sworn an oath to the constitution.
If you read past the heading, you might find out.
Ya know, fair. I offered the same suggestion to someone on another post just the other day.
That being said, providing summaries that stop one sentence short of relevant information to turn them into clickbait, not that helpful.
To the Constitution of the United States.
Read the article?
Why is this being downvoted? Not everyone is an army nerd and knows all this shit.
Understanding the relationship of the US military to the US government is essential civics knowledge. Like understanding the 3 branches of government
Lol, no it isn’t. It’s some extremely niche shit that 90% of people know very little about.
Because the answer is in the article.
Okay, but the video cuts off just before the answer and the page is formatted to draw attention away from the article.
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