To people acting like everyone ends up in debt on purpose, feel lucky that you’ve not had financial disaster strike. Means can change in an instant, and what you thought was a huge safety net can be gone to a bad accident or hospital stay as quick as you can blink.
Facts. I had a major health issue essentially overnight, no long term disability but decent health insurance. Maxed out my deductible 2 consecutive years, was unable to work for 10 months. Still in medical debt with no savings almost 3 years later because of this setback. Hoping to get the debt paid off in the next year and start saving up again.
Which is precisely something anyone outside the US (or other countries without a functional social healthcare system) don’t understand. Nobody outside those places is as worried about their healthcare costs dragging them into debt. Which makes sense, considering there’s no reason why an ambulance should cost between 5 and 10 thousand dollars, or a drug having to cost 5000 times the production price, when it’s initial development was funded by US taxpayers.
Yeah, but they are free and you’re not /s
Eh, plenty of people here in Europe go into horrendous debt after an unwanted change in circumstances. Maybe not medical debt (to some countries), but many lose jobs, homes, income, and more.
They were specifically talking about medical debt.
Also, most European countries have excellent systems to catch those who lose jobs until they get a new one so you don’t have to start over.
Yep. Hurt my back and needed surgery, was out of work for 3 months, literally the week after I returned to my job my wife had a severe neck issue that took 9 months to diagnose then 6-12 months to recover from after surgery. So one of us has been out of work almost non stop for almost 2 and a half years now, in addition to accruing a ton of medical debit. And I have really decent insurance, but the max out of pocket is like $5000-13000 for my family. And my premium aren’t cheap either. It’s unfortunate.
I’m sorry to hear that and i hope it gets better for you and your wife. It’s not easy hitting those deductibles when one or both of you aren’t able to work.
Reading accounts like this has made me realize I should worry about disability insurance coverage more than life insurance. That extra 600 bucks a year or whatever for the add on disability insurance to give me 50% more coverage seems worth it to me. Hope I never need it, but 25 bucks per paycheck seems worth it for extra peace of mind and security.
Disability insurance is something that everybody should have. You never know when you will become disabled. I became disabled in my mid-30s. Without disability insurance, I would potentially never make any money again. With it, I get 60% of my previous income until I’m 60 years old. That’s not enough to live on, but it sure is a lot better than not having anything.
Im guessing thay you’re in the US and you’re referring to “long term disability insurance”. To anyone else in the US considering LTD and thinking “$25 is a lot a month, I could afford it but the insurance doesn’t seem that important.” Please look into the rules in your area. In some cases, if you don’t have LTD you’re health insurance ends when your Short term disability ends if you cannot still return to work at that time. LTD may keep your health insurance going in a time when you will most need it for you and/or your family. It could mean the difference between being back at work in 2 years and losing everything. If you can afford it you should probably get LTD.
So I guess I am lucky that my employer offers basic LTD? For me the 30 bucks is the supplemental add on to get the standard 40% salary coverage increases to 60%. To me that’s 600 or 700 bucks a year in cost that is going to be the difference of thousands of dollars a month if I end up needing LTD.
In my case, LTD did not enable me to keep my health insurance, but it did enable me to keep receiving some income.
I got struck by a car while I was still a young college student and had no health insurance (this was before children could stay on their parents’ health insurance until they reach 26).
One of my parents is poor and the other is just a step above it, so medical bills went unpaid.
I had the joy of starting my adult life in debt, with bad credit, during the Great Recession.
Know what’s fun? Waking up at 2 am and having to grab your family and whatever you can carry, because the river is now in your living room.
So many people are, as you say, in debt for reasons completely outside of their control. And it doesn’t take a lot. Bad transmission in your car, or a surprise medical bill, tree limb landing on your roof…
hospital stay as quick as you can blink
What if I am european?
The article is talking about Americans…
Don’t you worry, I’m sure they will find a way to ruin your lives given time too. Lots of public Healthcare places are already starting to tighten the noose.
The Tories have been trying to kill the NHS for decades.
Medical issues are not the only thing that can wipe out a year of salary in an instant. It’s just a straightforward example for a very large population, disaster isn’t going to be the same for everyone and if you’re someplace with strong safety nets be glad they’re there and SUPPORT them. Because I’m willing to bet you have at least one politician who’s suggested taking them away. And what may seem ridiculous today might suddenly be what’s happening if people don’t stay on top of protecting those safety nets.
Fuck em, dont pay it back. Shit lets go fight club on these companies. They do nothing but steal. Might as well do the same back.
The first step is getting as out of debt as possible. The second step is figuring out which of those debts are pointless money pits [medical, student loans] and then realizing that credit is nothing more than a yoke and a scam and then you’re totally free.
They wont garnish your wage without a court order, and guess what would be impossible to get if we all did it? The courts would be backed up for 30 years.
Also if they ever call you just remember that the more aggressive you are on the phone the less likely they are to get a call from them again. Let it fly. Think of the most vile things you can possibly say to them and say it. Hint that you are going to come there and talk to them in person. If they cry you win
I actually kind of wonder what would happen if literally every debt owed to a mega bank or corporation just collectively stopped being paid…what would happen? Might be fun.
Yet another article that could have been published any time in the past 40 fucking years.
Pretty much.
Yeah! Be like the billionaires, former mayors of NY, radio talk show hosts and politicians. Don’t pay back shit.
Lets say you have no objective chance of ever getting a house and you have an apartment you probably can’t be kicked out of.
How does it make sense to keep drowning and being miserable and nominally padding the bottom line of some random banks ledger?
Why not file and discharge, keep ur car/primary residence, and be done with it? Banks have everyone on this riduculous hamster wheel that even they would never tolerate, but ya, you’re a deadbeat fuckup for demanding corporations dirty little trick creditors HATE…
you have an apartment you probably can’t be kicked out of.
Mind expanding on why you think this is a reasonable assumption? There was an eviction moratorium at the height of the pandemic, but that has been over for more than two years now. The required notice period for an eviction varies with jurisdiction, but generally isn’t more than a month or two, and if you try to drag it out a little further by refusing to vacate and forcing them to take you to court, having an eviction on your credit report makes looking for future rental accommodations Super Hell™.
Might be speaking from a jurisdiction with stronger long-term tenant protections altho I’m glad you poked me to elaborate.
I want to caveat by saying mom/pop landlords (altho there’s statistically some good ones) are a scourge on society because they open you up to various ridiculous externalities like personalty conflicts, playing games, renovictions (“my long-lost Nigerian son + lover needs the room --> to pay more in rent”)
If it was the case I was renting from a mom/pop or solopreneur, I would never be able to sleep. Fuck that
This is the weirdest indirect bootlicking of soulless corporate landlord companies I’ve ever seen.
Also how would it be indirect, or did you just want to use that word context be darnd? I won’t feign stopping you but it definitely adds more to the ol’ curiosity pile
Au contraire, seems corporate rentals are far less able to quietly renovict. That is not a debate and if you imply otherwise you’re inescapably incorrect unless everyone booted signs NDAs
Housing dies in darkness and for lack of publicity, mom and pop style. Lots of abusive “mom and pops” that kick their kids out at 18.
I mean this in the most politik way (to boot hehe), but you’re going to have to fight me on this one comrade 😋, upvotes be damned
Edit: RIP, legal standards. Lets just leave it all to the gurantee of entropic charity
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Nothing you posted actually addressed my question. (“Why do you think it’s reasonable to assume people probably can’t get kicked out of their apartments?”) There is no jurisdiction with a longer notice period than 30 days for nonpayment of rent. Given that this thread is about Americans struggling with debts, your various complaints about “renovictions” and “mom and pops” as you’re calling them are some nice straw men. We’re talking about people being unable to afford rent here, and small-time landlords, while certainly not perfect, are equally if not more likely to display some humanity and actually work with someone who is struggling financially.
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It’s indirect because you likely knew you’d be ridiculed for praising soulless corporate landlords directly, so you chose to focus on how much worse “mom and pops” are instead and make your (irrelevant) point implicit. Or maybe you had some bad experiences with independent landlords and derailed yourself ranting about that before you could actually address the question?
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Back to the actual topic, it’s real hilarious that your proposed solution to your own hypothetical is “just file bankruptcy and keep your car/primary residence”, you don’t HAVE a primary residence to keep if you’re a renter. Bankruptcy proceedings also cost time and money that someone who is already struggling with rent probably doesn’t have…
One could be very generous and say that you just don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, but I think you’re just trolling tbh. Or way too high to be posting about serious topics.
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You didn’t answer the question
It works out for some of us. Pretty sure my landlord died of cancer and his brother is just taking the money now. Wrote myself a 5 year lease extension at the same rate, signed it, and mailed it to brother.
I still remember the moment that my wife told me she heard he died. I stomped the floor and yelled at it “hope it’s warm enough for you mother fucker!”. Hahaha. It’s fun to pretend there is a hell sometimes
Bankruptcy sucks and I wouldn’t recommend it except as a last resort, but if one’s position is untenable it makes sense to avail yourself of every recourse. I have a friend who went through one and she’s doing fine as far as I can tell. It’s not like businesses are shy about filling Chapter 11 when it suits their purposes.
So…how would I create an LLC, and then transfer my debt to it? Asking for several friends.
I think you have to tell the judge you want the white rich person deal first. You know like Wall Street gets
- Be cash-poor but a billionaire on paper.
That’s okay. The govt can forgive it and print money if needed.
They only do this for corporations defaulting. not citizens… ;)
Shitttt!
The government should go after the companies price gouging and make a fund with it. That fund should be set up for people that are in trouble either with a payment plan that works, financial council if needed. I’m not sure if they can get enough funds for partial and full payments but the corporate greed is one reason all these people had to go this route. Most Americans are living paycheck by paycheck every year medical goes up higher than the wages.
Did they not include a link to the poll in the article?
No, but they did state: “The survey was conducted on December 8 with a sample size of 1,500 people living in the U.S.”
Sooooo, it essentially means fuck all.
Americans should leave that hell hole and migrate to europe. Just leave that shit behind. Maybe the system changes when there are no more people to exploit.
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Some of them are just hungry and don’t get paid enough to afford a full month of food.
Ally non student debt is from a tine when Ibdidn’t have a stable job. In fact I barely spend at all, all my money troubles are 100% from low income
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Inflation lowers debt burdens, it doesn’t raise them.
Except for adjustable rate debt, like CC debt. The article even notes that rates were typically around 15% pre rate hikes, and are now sitting at 22%.
My income and cost of living both went up 20% over the past few years, but it’s not a wash because my debts didn’t change.
My guess is that, like me, you don’t carry cc debt. I have a heloc that I haven’t started drawing from yet, but I got it last year and the rate is up slightly since when I got it. It will go down with the rates, but if there were money in it, my debt burden would also rise.
Too many have been conditioned to live beyond their means.
tell that to the cheapest apartment I could find being, quite literally, more than half my income.
Move. You can’t afford to live where you do, and there’s lots of cheaper places.
There are no cheap places left in the US. Corporations are buying everything in sight and price fixing rent.
You think I can just afford to pack up and move far away? I’d have to move states, which involves paying for moving an apartment full of furniture or getting new furniture. That and telling me to pack up and abandon all the people I know, and my family… is very unreasonable. There’s not “lots of cheaper places”. Even the smallest studio apartments in this state are at minimum $1000 a month.
Washington?
Although, I guess you might be able to find something cheaper if you go east of the mountains. But then you would have to live east of the mountains…
everywhere’s like this now. even the middle of nowhere (no jobs) isn’t cheap anymore
That’s not mentioned in the article, and not how I’ve been able to pay my rent, always bank transfer or cash.
The US has an issue with credit cards, this is nothing new. Too many feel they deserve stuff before they can afford it. I’m not talking about the sickness is the US medical “system”.
Why do you think people use a credit card to buy nice things they don’t need, per se?
Something like 62% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. It’s not that people “feel they deserve stuff before they can afford it”, it’s that in our current economic system, prices are going up and wages are staying low. Productivity is going up, but compensation is not keeping up with prices or productivity. People can at least dream of being able to pay off a credit card that they used to buy a new TV or maybe a new car, but something bigger like a house, or comfortably affording children, is off the table because of how expensive everything is right now.
But let’s be totally honest, people get into debt to do things like pay rent, or on car repairs, or hospital bills, or vet bills, etc. etc.Also, people are allowed to have nice things they don’t need. They should have nice things they don’t need. This idea that, unless you’re well-off, you should only buy the bare necessities is bullshit. Comfort is necessary for basic mental health. You’re not an idiot who can’t take care of their money because you dare to buy a PS5 and a big TV. You just want to squeeze a tiny bit of pleasure out of this miserable existence.
also a big TV and PS5 cost less than one month’s rent at even a 50 year old small apartment
I didn’t say that though, did I? I said that unless you can afford it, you shouldn’t be using a CC because you feel entitled to something. The capitalist system encourages that and now we have huge amounts of CC debt which is unmanageable.
Because this is well known that people do it in the US. Putting a car on a credit card is madness, as the interest will eat you alive month by month.
Still being an apologist
For what?
“Means” here meaning food
Not what I intended. The US has been used to credit cards for so long, and a terrible minimum wage.
Classic victim blaming. I understand you mean well, but what you wrote didn’t express that. If it were simply a matter of bad personal choices, legislation could easily fix it, right?
Even if it were simply a matter of bad personal choices - one or two of those, maybe a big medical emergency and you get buried forever? That’s the system we’re all cool with?
It’s probably a mixed bag. I live in a high cost of living area. Weird to see people, with such high salaries living paycheck to paycheck and carrying CC debt due to life style choices.
I wish the article or survey had a breakdown of the sentiment based on household income and other demographics.
Also curious, do schools teach financial literacy these days? I had volunteered in the past with some youth outreach programming, and one of the popular classes was financial literacy to help young people understand account management and how to avoid credit card debt pitfalls.
There is a lot that needs to happen to change the rules of the system to get to a more equal society, but in the meantime it is important to teach the rules of the system and how to work within it as best you can.
Apologist
For what? Try better than one word.
The system of cronyism we have.
