The Colorado Department of State warned that it would be “a matter for the Courts” if the state’s Republican party withdrew from or ignored the results of the primary.
They seem to be rather missing the point. It wouldn’t matter if they switch to a caucus, he’s banned from running in the state so all they would do is exclude Republicans from having a candidate for president in the general election. This is very much in the “don’t threaten me with a good time” territory.
They wouldn’t win the state anyway so being removed from the ballot is good for them - it makes challenging the nationwide legitimacy of the election easier.
If Trump loses, it will help him to have Fox News (truthfully!) say that millions of people who wanted to vote for him were prevented from doing so.
I bet if Trump isn’t on the ballot in CO, there is a significant subset of his voters who would just not vote, with serious implications for down ballot races, especially in the House of Representatives. Think about how that would affect Lauren Boebert
Boebert is a lost cause. She only won by 500-odd votes, had almost conceded the race that night. After the latest scandal, she’s done.
Might be another Republican, but it ain’t going to be Traitor Barbie.
I wish that was how elections worked for regressives, or politicians in general. It isn’t.
So what. They don’t play by the rules. They will lie, cheat, steal, and incite insurrection no matter what rules are or aren’t followed.
Trying to pander to these psychos is like trying to play a friendly game of chess with a chimp. You follow the rules, even let the chimp win but no matter what you do the chimp is just gonna throw the board across the room, throw shit at you, and then bite your face off.
Anyway, the court ruled. Just like they did in FL during the Bush v Gore election. Let’s let SCOTUS do whatever they’re gonna do and go from there.
If the GOP doesn’t like it, they can get fucked. Or let them start their CivIL WaR and let’s see how it turns out for 'em.
Wish Democratic leadership had your backbone. The GOP went ape-shit crazy in 2006 when Obama took office. Downhill since then.
Democrats have been too fucking dumb to realize they’re in a fight, getting their asses kicked and the rules are out the window. Fight back. Lie, cheat and steal. Why don’t they have their own propaganda arm like Fox?!
FFS, win for once. Taking the high ground isn’t working, and won’t when the other side doesn’t recognize the rules.
I’ll keep voting D, but I’m damned disappointed.
Speaking of high road …
The greater concern to Republicans is that there are other issues people vote on when casting their ballot, not the just President. If their voters stay home, they could lose more than just the Presidency.
And?
He’d say that when if he lost and the viewers would still believe him.
I think the point is that a caucus is overseen by the party, not the state. I still don’t know the legality of doing it at this late stage after the primary has been agreed to and will be set on Jan 5, but that’s their thinking.
This is my favorite part though:
Nevertheless, Williams told NBC News that the Colorado Republican Party would look to kick off the process of putting together a caucus in “the next week or two,” requesting a waiver to convert the system from the Republican National Committee. … “We’re figuring it out as we go,” Williams said.
A whole week or two to put together a caucus.
You’re not understanding. They’re complaining about the primary so their solution is essentially to hold their own primary outside of state control, but he wouldn’t be able to run in the general election even if he wins their primary so it doesn’t matter. As things currently stand there’s only two possibilities, Trump loses the primary to someone else in which case things continue as normal, or Trump wins the primary in which case the GOP wouldn’t be able to run a presidential candidate in Colorado. Biden (assuming he’s the DNC candidate for the general election) would run unopposed in Colorado.
Probably not earth shattering since he would likely win there even if Trump could run there, but if Trump isn’t on the ballot a certain percentage of GOP voters won’t bother going to the polls which will hurt the GOP in senate and congress races as well as on state votes.
Oh man your last point is important. I’m so low on confidence in the system that I’m nervous to rely on the government a tuallly excluding him from the ballot, but if he really is banned it’d be so awesome to watch gop officials freaking the fuck out as their turn out numbers drop like a meteor
Especially because lauren boebert is in a very competitive down ballot primary race that trump not getting out the voters for will hurt. Her opponents are more centrist, standard Coloradan republicans
I haven’t seen a law stating that the secretary can keep a candidate legally nominated by the party off of the ballot. There may be such a law, but I haven’t seen it mentioned. The only law I’ve seen is the one allowing them to design the primary ballot based on their own determination of eligibility. I’d be happy to read anything you have about the same type of law applying to the general.
That’s assuming that such a nomination would be legal. I’m pretty sure most places have laws that say “you must be eligible for the office in order to stand as a candidate for it.” Colorado Republicans could nominate Justin Bieber, but that wouldn’t make him eligible to be President.
The ruling is that the sec state cannot allow onto the ballot a candidate who is legally disqualified.
Not quite. The law is that the secretary cannot allow someone onto the primary ballot who is, in their opinion, disqualified. The ruling is that CO has the right to use that law to keep Trump off of the primary ballot.
I don’t know whether that law also applies to the general election ballot, but the fact that the republicans think that they can pull it out of the state’s hands and do a run around with a caucus makes me think it’s about the primaries. I don’t think they can legally switch to a caucus mid race for other reasons, but if they do they think it’s a path.
That’s the dispute right now. The argument is that the Constitution commands something, and all government officers and courts are sworn to follow it. It’s the same as the exclusionary rule. In the Constitution the 4th Amendment says “no unreasonable search and seizure.” Doesn’t say anything about the legal remedy or what to do when it happens.
The Supreme Court held that the command implies the remedy, and the command must be followed by all officers and courts.
The argument here is whether it’s like that, or whether the right is only vitiated if Congress passes a statutory framework to provide a remedy. It’s a dumb take and such a rule would effectively makes the Constitution meaningless.
Doesn’t matter if it’s the primary or general. The secretary of State creates and distributes the ballots, she cannot put Trump’s name on it any more than a prosecutor could offer illegally obtained evidence. It is the prosecutor’s duty to follow the command of the Fourth Amendment, same as it is the secretary’s duty to follow the commands of the Constitution; she could not list someone on the ballot under 35 years of age, she cannot list an insurrectionist.
The argument would be that he’s ineligible due to the 14th amendment and therefore they’re just enforcing the constitution which would supercede state law anyway. That would of course be a very interesting legal question as the crux of it is is a state allowed to enforce a provision of the constitution that the federal government isn’t (which is itself a state of affairs that raises all kinds of questions).
Yes exactly. That’s the argument that has already been discarded in this case. Were Trump to be found guilty of insurrection, he would be legally ineligible under the constitution. What team Trump is hoping to do is to win on the insurrection case or to delay trial until after he wins the presidency, after which he has any number of ways to escape prosecution.
However, if he is found guilty before the general ballots are set (or after, I suppose - I really don’t know that part) he would be ineligible but that would be based on a federal court ruling and not on the judgement of the secretary, I believe.
Technically the 14th amendment doesn’t require him to be found guilty at trial, although it would be a much stronger argument if he was. That argument also hasn’t been discarded, it’s still being argued in court right now. This was just an attempt to use an alternative approach to accomplish the same thing.
Ultimately with the way things are going it’s looking increasingly likely Trump won’t make it to the general election. He’s either going to fail to secure the primary, going to lose an insurrection case and become ineligible under the 14th amendment, or lose one of his many other criminal cases and wind up in jail. It’s always possible he could campaign from a jail cell, but his already shaky chances of winning in that case go down drastically.
His strategy right now is around delaying tactics because he’s frantically trying to prevent any of his court cases from wrapping up before the general election in the hope that he wins and can effectively become immune from criminal prosecution. The biggest danger to him right now though is actually his own party. On the one hand they know what kind of monster he is and would rather he just disappeared. On the other hand they’re absolutely terrified of his fanatic cult members and know that Trump could easily turn them on anyone who too obviously moves against him. If they can find a way to bury Trump that can’t be tied back to them they’ll absolutely jump at that chance, all while decrying how terrible the situation is, and how unfortunate it is this happened to Trump.
Remember when people who employed fascist rhetoric, incited riots at Capitols, tried to destroy democracy and kill a sitting Vice President were considered terrorists by everyone and weren’t to be negotiated with?
Pepperidge Farms does.The comments in conservative communities are saying “democrats” are fascists and blaming them for shit conservatives did in the past prior to the voting rights act.
Basically flaunting their ignorance of history and the southern strategy while intentionally muddying the waters with projection. It’s gross
*dangerous ftfy
The lack of self awareness is always stupefying to me. I read the comments in the hope of perhaps seeing some room for agreement or to enlighten my understanding of other’s views. There’s never room and it’s never enlightening.
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Pepperidge Farms does.
Doubtful. They’re probably back to donating money to fascists for a 1% lower tax rate.
What does that mean, they’ll have their own election with blackjack and hookers?
Don’t say black in the presence of GOPers.
This has nothing to do with Melanie trump.
They’re just going to take their burning cross and go home.
Plot Twist: They’ve already gone rogue. Right now they’re just bullying to get what they want.
They can just go fuck themselves. 🖕
Right? Every threat was something they’re already doing.
And from 2000-2015, democrats have been bending over.
I’m glad they’re starting to recognize the BS.
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Do you think a rogue GOP would storm the capital even more?
But this time, they mean it!
Dave Williams, the chairman of the state party, reaffirmed the plan. “I’m not going to let these sons of bitches dictate who we’re going to nominate,”
Where was Dave on January 6th?
Pretty sure anyone giving comfort to Trump on this matter now is giving comfort to an insurrectionist. Time to clean house.
The goddamn constitution is the one dictating
sounds like threats from terrorists
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… The, “terrorists” From an England perspective, are the Democrats removing a presidential candidate over empty nothings. He hasn’t been actually convicted and yet, this is happening.
Slippery slope, etc. etc.
They’re following the specific language of the 14th amendment. That’s terrorism now? It actually doesn’t say he needs to be convicted of any insurrection – it says that he needs to have participated in an insurrection. And, it provides a specific check and balance (two-thirds vote in congress) if a court is attempting to keep him off the ballot improperly.
It sounds like we have a difference of factual understanding of what happened on January 6th. Where are you getting “empty nothings”? I saw this is why I’m saying it wasn’t nothing.
A judge did say he was an insurrectionist.
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Not Democrats. Colorado supreme court. The plaintiffs in the case are actually Republican primary voters.
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He isn’t a presidential candidate yet. He’s a candidate for the Republican presidential candidate
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Not empty nothings, Congressional investigations show there was an insurrection, and that some groups were specifically planning for this day.
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The 14th amendment by design does not require a conviction, as it was made to bar confederates. This clause has only been applied in situations without convictions, actually.
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Maybe you need to go read the 14th amendment and also the rulings.
The legal process was followed. The courts decided. Don’t like it? Tough shit.
I didn’t like it when the SCOTUS said to stop counting and give the election to Bush.
Nice concern trolling, lmao.
That’s not an England perspective. It’s a moron perspective. I’m betting there are quite a few people in England who are at least a little less idiotic.
From an Australian perspective, yeah, nah.
The Colorado Supreme Court is ‘the Democrats’ now?
There was a failed coup.
“Empty nothings.” Fuck off.
Lol. U mad bro?
Colorado has literally done exactly this before to keep a non-natural born citizen off the ballot, and none other than Judge Gorsuch decided that case. In his ruling he wrote that the state has a right to conduct their elections in a way to ensure their stability and in accordance with their laws. Thomas ruled the same way in Bish v Gore, and the SC ruled the same way while overturning key provisions in the Voting Rights Act.
I wonder what the difference is this time that would make conservatives do a full reverse and say states cannot control their own elections?
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How dumb can you be
He doesn’t need to be convicted
do it then. no one’s afraid of you. y’all threaten a civil war every time the waiter forgets your ranch. we’re done capitulating to threats. do it or shut the fuck up.
Dave Williams, the chairman of the state party, reaffirmed the plan. “I’m not going to let these sons of bitches dictate who we’re going to nominate,” he said
So eloquently put by the chairman of the party of Christian family values.
Well, they can do their caucus thing as they like. As long as Trump will not appear on the ballot, I’m fine with it.
The courts decision is a bit wonky, though. I don’t consider “being the candidate for party X” an “office, civil or military, of the United States”, so banning him from the primaries is (IMHO) unwarranted. On the other hand, the court admits that Trumps actions are valid reasons to invoke A14, so removing him from the ballot papers for November would be justified. And that is the only place that counts.
Luckily for you, Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch already ruled on that precise topic when he was a Colorado judge. A foreign born man who had become a US citizen, a person who is ineligible by default, still insisted he should have the right to run for president even if he can’t take office.
Gorsuch ruled that the state had a responsibility to prevent anyone who is ineligible for office from even being allowed on the ballot.
His decision was even cited in Trumps ruling.
And that makes sense. If a person can’t legally hold the office, it’s letting people waste their votes by allowing that person to remain on the ballot.
You might argue that people should know all about who they’re voting for, but we all know that’s not the case.
He didn’t actually rule on this. There was no question of eligibility in that case, it was just whether being ineligible for the position gave the state the right to block him from the ballot. This one will hinge on whether or not the amendment applies to trump. And based on the wording of the amendment, unfortunately, they have multiple ways to reasonably argue it does not, and we all know the conservative majority will rule he is eligible.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States
Can’t hold any office. Pretty plain.
If by the 14th he is not eligible for the presidency outside of 2/3rds of Congress voting to waive that, then why the fuck should he be on the ballot? It’s pointless.
That’s like saying I’m banned from a venue but keeping me from getting in line to enter is unfair and unwarranted.
Do you hear yourself? I guess you think you know better than the high courts lmao
If there’s one good thing to have come from Trump, it is that he has exposed how terrible at making laws, the politicians have been
that’s the part that irks me the most about modern American politics.
30% of the current House and 51% of current Senators have law degrees. these are supposed “experts”; you’d think they would be able to write better laws…
The relevant laws were written hundreds of years ago, by people who probably thought the meaning was obvious.
why the fuck should he be on the ballot?
Because the Republicans should be able to do whatever they want in their candidate selection process, all the way up to and including running a disqualified candidate. It’s their club and they can run it however they like.
They should be allowed to choose the candidate but the state shouldn’t be forced to put him there. He’s disqualified. It should be equivalent to the party dropping out of the race if they pick him…
That’s exactly what should happen.
You want to nominate a dog to run for president? You want to nominate a fictional character to run for president? You want to nominate a dead person to run for president?
Go ahead.
The state is not obligated to put that nominee on the ballot because that nominee is 100% ineligible to hold the office of president.
Although thinking about it, it WOULD be hilarious if he was on the ballot while being absolutely for-sure barred from office. At least unless he somehow won, then the evil Republicans would whip up the moronic conservatives and we’d have ourselves an actual civil war…
Yeah, it’s more than just a social club electing a leader, though. It’s quite literally our nation sorting out our presidential elections. I think some legal boundaries outside the norm are in order for these two particular “clubs.”
You go ahead and make Trump the leader of your rotary club, though.
I reluctantly agree with this. If they want to nominate or even elect a candidate that cannot serve, so be it. When the time comes to take office, the person with the most votes that is qualified to serve should take the office.
Remember Jan 6th? That was their attempt at a civil war. We believe them, we just don’t give a damn because they’re like that anyway.
I love that instead of doing any type of introspection about letting someone that has been channeling Hitler in his campaign rails, and tried to overthrow the US government to remain in power represent your political party, they just want to change the rules basically making the choice for the voters that might want a real candidate.
They WANT the strongman in power. That’s the point. They’re terrible people who want to do terrible things.
Just seems at this point no matter your drive for bad intentions you would see Trump is poison for anyone in his orbit. Bill Barr (somehow ) and his Generals (that had to stop him from launching missiles into Mexico) seem to be the only ones that held any top positions without being part of an investigation of some sort. The party is full of terrible people, seems like it would be easier to find a Hitler nobody knows/suspects like they did in Congress.
I think they see a useful personality. Hard to build a cult of personality when normally, your best orrators come across like a prudish pastor trying to do calculus while receiving head…
But probably better to find one that can wait to do all the crime AFTER they seize complete control of the government. Right now you have a good chance of being charged if you step into his orbit because he can’t stop committing crimes and then doubling down them when confronted (like his defamation case where once he was done he doubled down and set himself up for another).
Yea, but my point is: look what they’re working with. Frigging Mike Pence was picked to counter the less scrupulous parts of Trump’s character.
It’s Trump, because every other Republican is quite literally too stupid, obviously evil, or too boring. Or a mixture of the three in most cases.
That’s always the problem with fascists being effective: They’re very lame people.
Pence was to get the gullible Christian vote, then quickly after Trump learned it was about being racist, not religion at all, and stopped even pretending to care about religion or Pence.
That’s completely wrong. Remember the whole posing with the (upside down) bible in front of the church?
That was years in…
Good luck? He’s still not going to be on the ballot or eligible for a write in campaign.
This is only the primary ballot. He’d still appear on the final ballot if nominated by the party.
Really? I don’t remember anything like that from the 14th. If he’s ineligible he won’t appear on any ballot in that state.
It’s apparently what the court ordered. I haven’t read it though.
And if the state Supreme Court agreed they wouldn’t have reversed the lower court.
You’re setting yourself up to be sorely disappointed when the scotus rules that he is eligible and they can’t remove him from the ballot, and the argument will be completely reasonable based on the he stupid wording of the amendment.
Oh? So you buy that line that the President is not an officer of the government?
Yes, it’s a sound and well-reasoned legal argument which has been adopted by the Supreme Court and was relied upon by the Court less than 15 years ago.
Was it “Free Enterprise Fund v. Public Company Accounting Oversight Bd., 561 U.S. 477 (2010)”?
Because we already talked about how that case wasn’t about the president in anything more than their supervisory powers over appointees.
Considering the scotus has already ruled that we don’t elect officers in the US…yes, I do find that argument to be reasonable.
I’m assuming you have a source for that?
Alright. That’s not how SCOTUS rulings work. They aren’t word for word law like a bill. So the observation of what an officer is in regards to presidential supervision is exactly that. The holding was that they could not protect an appointee from being fired by using other appointees as a cut out. But only in that case for reasons of breadth of impact and functionally creating law by regulation. It is not an opinion on whether or not the President is an officer under the 14th amendment.
Which Reason does actually point out; more than I expected from them. But they are right that there will be arguments in front of the court over it if the case is accepted. To say that’s required is kind of a duh moment. Nobody goes to the SCOTUS and just shrugs.
Smells like bullshit around here.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States…
Pretty clear. Hold any office. He can’t hold any office.
Unlikely.
I wish I had your optimism.
So are we just downvoting things we don’t want to hear now?
As a non-US citizen I’m curious to know the arguments for both sides…just sticking my fingers in my ears and singing “la la la can’t hear you” ain’t gonna change the result…no matter which way it goes.
So, for the curious, why is this reply wrong? Do we think a republican weighted Scotus that overturned Roe v Wade would allow their sponsor to get ruled out of the election?
Go ahead, lol. Vote for someone who can’t be president.
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