Well, if they get the presidency, it could very well be. If they lose, let’s fucking hope so.
God, I hope they lose and the Democrats move much further left, and the Republicans end up where Democrats are now.
Would be a huge improvement.
I hope the Republicans are laughed out of relevance and the Dems split into two sane parties.
Same end result.
I’d love to vote based on how socialist I think we could be instead of voting based on how tyrannical I think we should be.
Agreed. That’s my hope too. Crush Republicans in November so they’re no longer a player, and then have a moderate party and a progressive party.
We’ll all get together on weekends to laugh at the tiny, impotent fascist party that remains, just to remind ourselves they’re the enemy that needs to be kept in check. No German antics where moderates and progressives play off the fascists to get one over the other.
Is that really plausible? My understanding of the politics over there is that the two camps are so insanely deeply rooted that the mere thought of joining a split part from “the other side” would be unthinkable. Especially when we are talking about loving from the republican side. At least that’s what my limited view here from Norway says.
It won’t be plausible until it is. I expect it would happen fast. If support for Trumpism shrinks just a little, say by a few percentage points, suddenly they start losing a LOT more elections. Some people get tired of being losers and either stop voting, or start getting involved in Democratic primaries. As support dwindles further, people lose the social group of Republicanism, making it less and less attractive.
Interestingly, Trumpism started with Russian help by doing the opposite. They provided a social seed on r/the_donald and social media in general that allowed people to feel like part of a fun group. I believe the initial group was largely Russian, and they attracted grassroots support through memes and vigilant and quick banning of anyone expressing a contrary opinion. It took less than a year for Trump to go from being a joke candidate to being the Republican nominee.
I think it can fall, and it can fall fast. The last realignment of that caliber in the US was the Southern strategy in the 1960s and 1970s. And the stage is set. Most professional Republicans hate Trumpism, but go along with it in order to keep their jobs. The infighting can potentially make most of the party unelectable, and they know that. It’s part of why they’re lining up to kiss the ring. They have to get on board or the Democrats might run the next 20 years of American politics (which has also happened before, long, long ago.)
You’d have to be more of a history buff than I am to really know how plausible it is, but I’d advise ignoring the last 50 years and looking back more at historical political realignments for comparison.
Thank you for the insight!
As a wise man once said:
See, when it starts to fall apart
Man, it really falls apart
Like boots or hearts, oh, when they start
They really fall apart
Yeah, republicans are good at falling in line.
I think the bigger problem though is the voting system we have here in the US. If one party split into two, it would basically guarantee wins for the other party.
I hope he loses, but then expect Dems to still disappoint.
If the GOP scatters to the wind we can maybe start taking out the trash in the DNC. Here’s to hoping.
Not really my party, tho.
They all face the guillotine but there’s definitely an order.
The American right is bordering on fascism on the political spectrum. I don’t say this to be dramatic or to make them look bad.
There’s no way Republicans are shifting left with the current political environment. Republicans are rewarded for being outrageous but at the same time are ostracized if they step out of line with Trump.
The problem is that democrats are still center right, they’ve been pretty open lately (both party and voters) that they see leftists as a WAY bigger enemy than they ever have Republicans/MAGA.
better get the elbow grease ready for that one.
If Republicans are no longer a threat Democrats will only move farther to the right.
Edit: Those of you downvoting me because I insulted “your team” need to review their history books.
The country has only moved to the right after Republican victories. Democrats maintained the status quo. If Republicans are no longer a threat, we’ll be left with the status quo and no longer have to worry about slipping further right.
Carter moved dems to right and away from labor protections. Clinton then continued by gutting social safety nets.
You’re talking socially, which are wedge issues meant to divide the working class. I’m talking about economic policy in which democrats only move right.
Fair enough, but that doesn’t make social policies and movement any less important.
Many of those social issues would not be a problem if our economic policies were taking care of our own. Look at history, racism has been used as a tool to shift the blame from the rich to minorities. Same shit is happening today, blame the guys, blame the immigrants. Instead of addressing the root cause, inequality, Dems give you piecemeal progress that they use like a carrot on a stick.
Dems will not save us unless we have a strong left opposition pushing them to do so. FDR only delivered the New Deal because labor was organized and winning, and if you actually look at policy in the new deal much of it was designed to weaken the labor movement that threatened the political power structure.
Dems will not just magically shift left, and this kind of magical thinking needs to be directly called out because it makes people think they have no control over the political situation. It just dilutes awareness.
There’s plenty of rich racist people and wealthy black people still see racism from colleagues. Economics would do a lot, but they cannot solve everything.
It’s also worth noting that the New Deal disproportionately helped white people and had policies which made institutional racism worse. As you point out with hurting organized labor, it really didn’t do as much help as we think it did.
It is not enough to simply call for fixes to economic inequity. We need to be holistic. We gain nothing through economic reductionism.
This is a knowable thing that a bunch of us have personally witnessed since ‘76. Dems at the height of their power have not raced to deliver a full tranche of left legislation. Instead, they game to “not go too far,” and the GOP retakes because voters’ lives were not radically improved, and the difference between the parties isn’t particularly visible, beyond a few social issues.
The rich people in the center are waking up. It will not be good for the extremes.
One way or another, it might be.
If Trump wins, it’ll likely be the last election we ever have. Dictator on day one and all…
If he doesn’t win, he will have drained the party and it’s donors of all of their cash.
He already gets the lions share of it and dumps it into a legal black hole, and now Lara plans to divert what little funding was leftover for the local and congressional races to Trump too.
They’re literally all in on him, so can they recover in 2 years for the midterms if he cleans them out?
If they have no cash for the midterms and we get a blue wave, what happens to their gerrymandered districts?
This election might be it for them.“if we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed… and we will deserve it”
— Lindsey Graham
May 3rd 2016I mostly agree but billionaires will still be able to write checks after the election. The whole nasty enterprise will just reboot itself.
Sure doesn’t help that the billionaires win no matter the outcome.
It’s not a bug, it’s feature.™️
Because it is. There will be no more campaigns and elections after 2024 if the orange wins. It’s not just him but the entire GOP machinery is waiting in the wings armed and ready to bring on fascism as soon as their guy gets in the office and controls the military.
“Stand down and stand by” that was his command to the GOP militia. They are standing by.
“Stand back and stand by.”*
My bad. You’re right.
They don’t really plan on having “elections” anymore if they win again.
They don’t plan on having elections anymore either way.
The whole thing reminds me of Cersei skipping her trial at the temple. Trump, and the RNC, are willing to lose all of the downstream races as long as Trump wins because they just plan to kill all the democrats as soon as he takes over the armed forces. It’s terrifying.
A link to a text description of the story from the TV show “Game of Thrones” (full of spoilers) https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Great_Sept_of_Baelor
They already had their last election, there is no more GOP only MAGA and enemies of MAGA.
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The article focuses on Trump and his legal problems and his desperation, but the fact that the Boomers are going to start dying en masse over the next decade (the oldest ones are now 78) is another factor. Their demographic is getting old as shit. That’s why they are so desperate as a whole.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/319068/party-identification-in-the-united-states-by-generation/
They are going full blown fascist because it’s the only way they’re going to be able to retain power in the future.
A huge number, and a disproportionate number at that, of boomers died during covid. We will be feeling that for the next ten years at least.
According to that chart GenX is still a problem and they’ll be around for a while. The thing that gets me worried is the huge number of “Independents” in Millennials and GenZ. How many of those are Liberal Independents and how many of those are Conservative Independents? I wish there was a followup question whenever people where given the option of Independent.
GenX and I’d sooner vote for someone with 81 years behind him than 91 charges ahead of him.
Also: fuck every last garbage person conservative, climate change is fucking real, trans rights are human rights, black lives matter, universal healthcare is a right and property is not a fucking investment.
Did you come up with that 81 behind, 91 ahead line? That’s pretty damn clever.
LOL. literally none of those things are true. Jesus. Black lives matter, sure, bout the same as any one elses. 0.
Hey look, another troll with a baby account. LOL
Black lives matter, sure, bout the same as any one elses
That is literally the point of the Black Lives Matter movement: stop treating black lives like they matter less than anyone else’s.
Black lives matter, sure, bout the same as any one elses.
Yeah, you got it! The next step is understanding that they aren’t treated the same. Lives are lost in police interactions or the justice system in general. And they’re still discriminated against for housing among other things… Do you support BLM yet?
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Removed, don’t insult other users.
See his insults are still here. Funny that. And “Fraser Crane” is less an insult than just accurate
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GenX is still a problem
Don’t I know it. The kids I went to school with are saying the stupidest things – and we took the same classes!! I can’t explain it.
Delayed onset mental deterioration caused by a decade or two of exposure to leaded gasoline.
I’m GenX and I think I’m mostly lead, plastic, and Styrofoam at this point.
I can’t speak for your class, but the problem with mine is meth brain.
Nice
Being a Xillenial has taught me that age doesn’t make you old, some people are just born that way. Some of my younger, fully-millenial siblings were basically born old. Others age and don’t get old in the process. I hope that I’m in the second category.
And millenials will be in 15 years, then genZ in another 15… As generations get older, they tend to shift to the right.
Not as a rule. Most people don’t change their political leanings, but if they do, you are right, they are more likely to go from liberal to conservative than conservative to liberal.
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/706889
Abstract
Folk wisdom has long held that people become more politically conservative as they grow older, although several empirical studies suggest political attitudes are stable across time. Using data from the Michigan Youth-Parent Socialization Panel Study, we analyze attitudinal change over a major portion of the adult life span. We document changes in party identification, self-reported ideology, and selected issue positions over this time period and place these changes in context by comparing them with contemporaneous national averages. Consistent with previous research but contrary to folk wisdom, our results indicate that political attitudes are remarkably stable over the long term. In contrast to previous research, however, we also find support for folk wisdom: on those occasions when political attitudes do shift across the life span, liberals are more likely to become conservatives than conservatives are to become liberals, suggesting that folk wisdom has some empirical basis even as it overstates the degree of change.
This was true with Boomers, but has not been with later generations.
I’ve seen other polls that suggest that Gen X is basically a 50/50 split, which means they kind of cancel each other out. But right wing Gen X’ers are basically Boomer-lites so these annoying conspiracy addled people will be with us for the long haul.
I’m not sure how the independents split in the younger generations, but even if its close to 50/50 that’s still a huge boost for the Dems as the Boomers die off.
First half of Gen X is Boomers, young edition. Second half of Gen X is Millenials, old edition. There really is a big line right in the middle somewhere.
Well at least one. I am independent because Democrats are center right and I’m more progressive. I’m older GenX. Husband is much more conservative but all of both our kids think more like me, though they register as D mostly.
Are Gen Xers Right Leaning?
I would guess some are. I would guess some are left leaning and some would be independent, middle of the road people.
Just like every other generation before and after Gen X. But big broad brush statements makes arguing on the Internet easier.
Look at the fucking link!
It’ll probably happen with millennials and younger too. It’s true we got fucked over, but for some people it’s surprisingly easy “fuck you I got mine” as we age, and there will always be grifters who take advantage of that.
Don’t threaten me with a good time
But seriously, I think they have to because with all of their gerrymandering and election prices fuckery, they’re still losing elections because of their Nasi-ism and fascist daddy issues being front and center of the party now.
They know damn well the writing is on the wall when the daddy issue boomers are dying quicker than they thought, gen-x is split, the new generation hates Nazis, and the fact that they know they can’t not be Nazis without losing their base, if they don’t win now and squash democracy now they’re going to fade away.
That’s not a good thing. They’re acting like trapped animals and telling their base this is the country’s last chance at the ballot box…
Basically it’s a setup for Jan 6th part 2.
Basically it’s a setup for Jan 6th part 2.
I mean, jan 6 was four years ago, any country with a decent legal system would have brought to justice those responsible already, right?
No, I must be thinking of Brazil.
The insurrection took place on January 6, 2021, which was three years ago.
Over 700 people have plead guilty or been convicted for crimes they committed at the capitol that day. Others have not yet been apprehended or gone to trial, and some others have not been identified. https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot-jan-6-criminal-cases-anniversary-bf436efe760751b1356f937e55bedaa5
Trump has also been charged for his actions three years ago, but has delayed the trial with repeated appeals all the way up to SCOTUS. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4468789-trump-special-counsel-jack-smith-supreme-court-jan-6-trial/
I don’t know what Brazil has to do with January 6. In the United States – as in many countries with “decent legal system” – a defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Anything less than proving Trump guilty beyond a reasonable doubt will be taken as a complete victory for him, and very possibly catapult him to re-election in November.
I don’t know what Brazil has to do with January 6. In the United States
Let me help educate you, the exact same thing as 6th Jan took place in brazil as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Brazilian_Congress_attack
They cracked down on that shit, punished about half the people in a year and what hapepend to the Brazillian Trump, Jair Bolsonaro?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Post-presidency_(2023–present)
In 30 June 2023, the Brazilian Superior Electoral Court barred Bolsonaro from running for public office until 2030 as a result of his attempts to undermine the validity of Brazil’s 2022 democratic election, as well as for abuse of power with regards to using government channels to promote his campaign.[176][177] The decision applies to municipal, state and federal elections for the next eight years. He was prosecuted for several allegations of fraud in the 2022 Brazilian elections and situations linked to the January 8 attack on federal government buildings. The decision came after a 5–2 vote in favor of conviction. Following the decision, Bolsonaro stated his intentions to appeal.[177][178]
On 31 October 2023, Bolsonaro was again convicted by the Superior Electoral Court over abuse of power for using official Brazil’s Independence Day ceremony to promote himself as a candidate which is banned under the Brazilian law. Former vice-president Walter Braga Netto who also attended the ceremony, and also ran for reelection in Bolsonaro’s ticket, was convicted by the Court and ruled disqualified, like Bolsonaro, to run for any office for the next eight years.[179][180]
He’s been stripped of power, possibility of power, had is passport confiscated and generally been neutralised by the Brazillian legal system.
It took them half a year, because, you know, They actually give a shit about democracy in Brazil. Meanwhile, trump is flying around wherever he wants despite being millons of dollars in debt, running for president again, and shilling shitty shoes.
To lighten the mood : Brazillian Q-Anon Shaman :
I take a different perspective: this is the death rattle. They are on the way out, we just have to wait 10 years, MAX before the base is in tatters. Most of the MAGA types are Boomers.
That’s what I thought 10 years ago.
They’re acting like trapped animals
GOP has the majority of governors, state legislatures, and federal judges. Even if they get washed like in 2008 (and there’s no reason to predict that kind of Dem landslide without a charismatic figure like Obama on the ballot) they aren’t going anywhere.
I didn’t say they were a trapped animal. I said they’re acting like one. You want some nightmare fuel? Trump loses, horribly, and tanks the down ballot races because he sucked up all the campaign money for his legal bills.
Instead of accepting the Democratic trifecta, Republican Governors, legislatures, and Judges just decide Trump and all the other Republicans won and send his electors to D.C. Understandably, the deep blue cities in the Mid West and South East riot. This is used as a pretext for the Governors to suspend civil rights in those states and we’re now in a stand off between Biden and the red states.
Instead of accepting the Democratic trifecta, Republican Governors, legislatures, and Judges just decide Trump and all the other Republicans won and send his electors to D.C.
That’s a thing they get to do because they control all of these offices.
It isn’t even as though guys like DeSantis and Abbott and Parson and Huckabee-Sanders aren’t wallowing in their own criminal cesspool either.
But Dems are so fixated on Trump as a unique villain that they’ve let this clown car of fascism do donuts across the southwest unimpeded.
Trump could drop dead tomorrow, get replaced by Vivek Ramaswamy, and they could still do this.
Thanks to a new wave of gerrymandering, vote caging, and legislative strong arming, they effectively already are hijacking state and municipal government offices from elected Democrats.
Just look at Abbot’s takeover of the Houston Independent School District. Or Mississippi State legislatures seizing Jackson’s elected judiciary with House Bill 1020. Or the Pennsylvania House impeachment of Philly DA Larry Krassner.
Understandably, the deep blue cities in the Mid West and South East riot. This is used as a pretext for the Governors to suspend civil rights in those states and we’re now in a stand off between Biden and the red states.
I’m old enough to remember blue cities erupting into riot over police treatment of black residents in 2014. Do you remember what Obama did next? Do you remember what Democrats campaigned on in 2016 and then again and again in subsequent election years?
Ironically that’s the same exact thing Dems are saying.
Yeah. But the Democrats aren’t actively planning to end democracy
True
For the folks who’d like to read the article before commenting on it. Here is the archive link.
the leading contenders for the new national party leadership have said in plain english and on right wing media that if they get in and take charge that every dollar the party raises will go to electing trump. they are saying this with one big state without state chair, one swing state with a state chair under indictment, and one big swing state with a party civil war. this is notwithstanding me at last reports literally having more money in my checking account than one state’s party.
the national party’s funds won’t go to repair the local infrastructure. or to protect vulnerable members in the house and senate or state houses that are in the balance. the national party’s funds will be going straight to trump. the money not going to pay his legal fees that is.
let’s hope that their fears come true. because as soon as trump got to power, the republican party has acted like nothing but a cult with a strong religious ferver. having one national party being a literal cult acting as a political party in a country this size is not good for anybody.
Trump sucking up all the down ballet money is excellent.
the fact that he can’t restrain himself long enough to stop dumping RNC donations directly into E Jean Carroll’s pocket is absolutely delicious
the fact that Republicans are either going to win this next election or commit a bunch of terrorism (and I’m using the inclusive “or” there) is a little less tasty
I would be very surprised if she sees that money
Trump is a parasite, he has eaten away the Republican party and destroyed it and himself in the process. Personally, I think this is the greatest thing that could happen for this country and international democracy as a whole. Hopefully the Democrats become the next right wing party (they already are right wing) so we can see the emergence of a proper left wing party (and by left I mean Socialism).
Personally, I think this is the greatest thing that could happen for this country and international democracy as a whole.
Not if he wins. If he wins, it could very well be the end of democracy not just in the US but also in countries that are unlucky enough to border Russia or China. Would probably embolden the slide towards fascism in India as well.
That’s without even mentioning the irreversible damage that would be caused to the climate.
This is my take on it as well. Let’s hope we aren’t wrong!
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ohhh…i don’t think you got the implication…or maybe you did.
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But not the type of star collapse that creates a black hole. They aren’t so much into the darker colors.
You might be surprised. Many public racists like black holes in private.
“Vaginal_blood_fart teaches science” is my favorite!
By ‘her father-in-law’s reelection,’ they mean his legal bills. Please drain the war chest!
A lot of groups are acting like there isn’t going to be any consequences, like this is a winner-takes-all time.
I think they know big changes are coming. Once the climate shitshow really hits (very soon!) they’re gone so their planning horizon has shortened.
Dare to dream
Last campaign as in more like a final solution.
