Noa Argamani, an Israeli woman freed from Hamas captivity in Gaza in June, said on Friday that her injuries were caused by an Israeli air strike during her rescue operation, not by a Hamas attack.
Speaking to diplomats from G7 countries in Tokyo on Wednesday, Argamani detailed her ordeal after she was taken captive by Palestinian armed groups during the 7 October attack. However, two days later, she issued a statement on Instagram, saying that some of her remarks had been misquoted and taken out of context.
Contrary to some Israeli media reports, Argamani clarified that she was not beaten or had her hair shaved by Palestinian fighters.
“[Hamas members] did not hit me while I was in captivity, nor did they cut my hair; I was injured by the collapse of a wall caused by an [Israeli] Air Force pilot,” she added.
Obviously…
Someone was posting literal propaganda the other day (MBFC legit outright said it was a propaganda source) that said hostages had bullet fragments “in and near” them. Then jumped to the conclusion that Hamas shot them immediately before the raid because they knew IDF was mighty and strong or some shit.
Israel has been showing us for almost a year they dont give a single fuck about the hostages, they were always sacrificial lambs. An excuse to flatten the area they were being held so Israel can then move more rightwing Jewish extremists in.
I wouldn’t rely on MBFC to recognize propaganda. Look at the difference between VOA news and Al Jazera.
Fun fact, they’re both government rags. VOA was legally barred from broadcasting where Americans might hear it because it was propaganda. Al Jazera is operated by Qatar.
In any case, Israel has been full of shit since this began. And Americans have bought that hook line and sinker.
Al Jazera news is pretty good. Better than most American news sources. And being state owned doesn’t mean it’s propaganda. CBC in Canada and RNZ in New Zealand are excellent and reliable news sources
Al jazera is definitely respected; that’s part of what makes mbfc’s review of both so glaring.
I doubt VOA is any more critical of the US as AJ is of Qatar. But one, they go out of their way to excuse that it’s sole purpose really is propaganda.
Clearly, this woman is Hamas. /s
More seriously though, Hamas not mistreating her beyond the initial act of kidnapping makes sense. The entire purpose of taking hostages is to use the threat of harm as leverage. So there’s incentive to keep them in relatively good condition, because as soon as anything happens to them that leverage is lost. Of course, people don’t always remember that, and the whole thing relies on all parties involved at least pretending to act in good faith.
Any idea why Hamas doesn’t execute hostages? Not to sound callous or anything. Just curious if you know if their religion forbids it or something
Because if Hamas executed the hostages, they’d have even less bargaining power than they already do. Unfortunately, Netanyahu doesn’t seem to care much about the hostages anyway.
If the hostages are released he’ll need a whole new reason to continue bombing!
His only reason is that it keeps him in power.
Except that they don’t. The ultimate goal of the war according to Netanyahu is to “destroy Hamas”, no elaboration on what that means tho. Securing the hostages is just an optional mission and he made that very clear in the past.
Hamas would have never gotten that strong in the first place if Netanyahu weren’t appalled by the PLO’s stance of a two country solution and had not worked actively against them. He does not want to accept a state of Palestine, holding true to the old Likud manifesto “Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.”
It’s funny how that stance is acceptable when it’s Israel that threatens and enacts genocide.
No
look the hostages were weak, they don’t deserve to live, just like the victims of the holocaust.
don’t look at me like that, it was the Israeli Minister of national security that said this shit, can’t I go quoting the only democracy in the m.east’s government?
That would defeat the whole point of taking hostages in the first place.
Seems they didn’t count on Israel being willing to kill hostages.
A Hamas guard who killed an Israeli hostage acted “in revenge” and against instructions after he heard news that his two children had been killed in an Israeli strike, a spokesperson for the group’s armed wing said on Thursday.
“The (Hamas) soldier assigned as a guard acted in a retaliatory manner, against instructions, after he received information that his two children were martyred in one of the massacres conducted by the enemy,” Abu Ubaida said on Telegram.
“The incident doesn’t represent our ethics and the instructions of our religion in dealing with captives. We will reinforce the instructions,” he added.
If they wanted to kill the hostages, they would have just killed them instead of taking them hostage. The whole point of a hostage is that it increases your power at the negotiating table. It gives you leverage. The hostage is something to trade in exchange for concessions, or the threat of harm to force the opponent’s cooperation. Neither of those work if the hostage has been killed or harmed, because any bargaining power you would have had from holding them goes right out the window as soon as the hostage is killed.
Because they aren’t AQ. They’re actually looking to negotiate things.
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Keeping in mind that I’m not an expert on Islam by any metric, I don’t think there’s any religious prohibitions, because executing people was something that ISIS was notorious for. I’ll also note that this tendency was one of the reasons everyone else in the region dogpiled them.
ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. They is the Israel of Islam. Zionism is not Judaism. ISIS is not Islam. Almost everything ISIS does is strictly forbidden in the Quran.
Fundamentalists picking and choosing which rules apply and which individuals are considered valid targets isn’t a good way to understand the tenets of a religion. Which of course means Hamas may also pick and choose, but just because ISIS did something doesn’t mean it’s the norm.
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Removed for using the slur “retard”, please edit in another adjective so I can re-approve your comment.
I cannot edit a deleted comment, so here is a revision of what I posted:
ISIS did not enact Sharia law when it comes to war. Their unhinged interpretation of the Qu’ran (they did not accept not the full thing ofc just the passages that they deemed relevant for their agenda) was basically that everyone that does not accept their ultra-fanatic extremism is infidel. And then they proclaimed Jihad and in Jihad, infidels are cleansed (also not the meaning of Jihad in the Qu’ran, but ISIS’ interpretation).
It’s best to forget about ISIS when talking about rules of Islam, they are about as much Islamic as the KKK are Protestant Christians.
Ah, noted for next time. Thanks for your patience.
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oh no she will probably get fired from her job for saying that
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So how many hostages is this that have said Hamas treated them well, it was Israel that hurt them? Because I can think of at least 2 others.
It’s great that she sets the record straight but I didn’t see anything in the article about her saying she was treated well. And I wouldn’t say being held hostage is ever being treated well. I would like to know how she was treated though, as it can’t be easy to “take care” of a hostage in the very dire situation right now in all of Gaza, even if you wanted to.
None of that is to say Israel is in the right, my opinion is quite the opposite.
Quote not included in the summary:
“Avinatan, my boyfriend, is still there, and we need to bring them back before it’s going to be too late. We don’t want to lose more people than we already lost,” Argamani said.
Also, a reminder that holding civilians hostage is a war crime.
raping civilian hostages is also a crime but israeli society doesnt seem to think so
Many in Israel think they should be punished by the military, similar to how the US punished members of the military for the abuses at Abu Ghraib.
Meanwhile Hamas made Yahya Sinwar, the man responsible for the atrocities on October 7, to be their leader.
As much as y’all try to both sides this thing, it’s very clear Hamas are really bad people.
I tend not to blame the beaten dog for biting the kid, instead I blame the man who beat the dog to that point.
human beings are responsible for their own actions
Say whatever you feel hardens up your soul to the systemic atrocities committed on the palastinians. Do you care about making the world better? Or are you concerned only with establishing a world in which your side can say “history stops here, where we have no blame”.
Coward cop out.
i don’t like an analogy where one’s a human and the other isn’t. if you want to make that out to be whatever strawman you just did that’s your prerogative
That’s funny. You’re supposed to feel sympathy for the dog in the metaphor.
Here, I’ll do a realistic human only metaphorical historical retelling of the events.
Man walks into your house and says it is his house now. You fight back, he kills you in front of your child. Your child grows up in the basement dungeon of that house, the man comes down occasionally and beats your child. When the child swings back the man beats him harder and blames the child. 80 years later the man has a family and is still living in the house. The child in the basement tries to blow up the whole fucking house. Then comes a completely random person who says the kid is an evil murderer who just wanted to destroy the man’s family. Probably because he didn’t really know about the 80 years of beatings and the dead father and stolen house.
Personally, id blame the man, both for pushing the kid to a position that extreme and brutal violence was the only way to even be heard.
Id blame the man twice infact for moving his wife and children into the house he knows he stole, knows he killed for, and knows there’s a person in the basement who he must violently repress because of he ever gets free, everything will burn.
It’s very sad that the wife and child died when the house blew up, but the man is at fault for that. Not the child in the basement. People like you tend to use the phrase “human shields” in these situations, but strangely enough it never is applied to the party in power, despite them doing the same exact thing.
There. All human. Pretty historical. Just for you. Not like the effort will be appreciated. We are just both yelling at each other. Here’s the real sad thing. If you was a moral person like you believe yourself to be, I would really. Genuinely. Human being to human being talking to each other here. Please take this genuinely and turn off the hate and anger for a second. Think about it. Look up the history and truly picture yourself as a Palestinian going through it. Ask yourself how you feel about native American terrorism against colonists and if that feeling is the same. Think about the Haitian revolution and tell me who is “in the right”. Look at the polish ghetto rebellion and ask why you probably honor that event instead of thinking about the Nazi soldiers families who had moved into the city. Please think about all of that and relate it back to this moment and ask why your inconsistent in those beliefs, because I refuse to believe that any genuine person could learn about the events I mentioned and truly think the natives, the enslaved folks, the people of Warsaw, are in the wrong. This situation is no different.
I hope this message has a genuine effect on you. I hope that you truly read it and think on it. I am not willing to argue further if that’s what you intend, but if you end up somehow with an open mind, I’d be okay talking with you. Otherwise, I’m done here. I wish your heart the best.
Both Hamas and the IDF are evil bastards only interested in harming the other, even if it means killing innocents. No excuses for either side.
“both sides both side both sides”
How about we demand that Hamas leave their underground lairs and battle the IDF a safe distance away from the civilian population?
I’m sure the IDF would agree to those terms, but do you honestly believe Hamas would?
Hamas would probably be fine with that if the IDF came to the fight in rags with 50 year old AKs and Molotovs.
When both sides are killing children and innocents, both sides are evil.
“We got the terrorist, but had to bomb a school full of kids” isn’t the action of a good society.
How about concentration camps and black market organ trade?
That’s China
I think you may have gone too deep down a rabbit hole that I’m not familiar with. A rabbit hole I’m not interested in.
I’m talking about Hamas war crimes, please make an effort to stay on topic.
That’s such a clear representation of what’s wrong with your entire view of this. Absolutely refusing to acknowledge the 80 years of Israel crimes against the palastinians cause you don’t wanna focus on that. They are interconnected. Cause and effect. Easy. Simple.
Surely nobody is surprised
Neat, and then what happened? Nothing.
Clearly the wall that the brave Israeli Air force pilot collapsed was hamas.
Can anyone provide a news link to a reputable source to confirm? Not to say I don’t believe it, just “trust but verify” and I’m unsuccessful in verification
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-815947
Despite media reporting that she was beaten by Hamas, Argamani went to social media on Friday to say that her words had been taken out of context. She said she was not beaten and her hair was not cut.
“I said, I had cuts all over my head and I was hurt all over my body.” Argamani emphasized that her wounds came from the collapse of a building after it was bombed by the IAF.
“As a victim of October 7, I will not allow myself to be victimized once again by the media,” she said.
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i hate the term trust but verify. It’s such a weird statement. It should really only be used in situations where looking for verification would be weird, or potentially suspect.
This is a warcrimes allegation being made here, this is an “inquire and verify” situation more than anything.
Your account being as new as it is you’ll find that the person who posted only uses specific sources with clear bias.
Not that they’re always wrong but they definitely are pushing a very clear and specific agend.
They also will engage you in bad faith, and being their own “crew” to their posts to drive engagement in the way they want and loudly shout down dissent.
Quit stealing decent people’s oxygen.
Why does Hamas refuse to allow the red cross access to inspect hostages?
Hamas doesn’t have to be good for Israel to be bad.
and israel being worse than hamas doesn’t absolve hamas of all responsibility either?
Like why was she a hostage in the first place?
Israel is a functional democracy and Gaza is a failed terrorist state. They are not equal in any form or fashion.
Israel is not a functional democracy, pretending as much is gross intellectual dishonesty.
They have elections, currency, standing military. The system of democracy isn’t perfect but name me one that is?
That’s a country, please try again.
They both employ terrorism
I don’t see the IDF hiding behind their women and children in the tunnels they forced children to build for them.
I don’t see the Palestinians surrounding Israel with walls, controlling all their movement, turning off their supplies of clean water and medicine, raping and beating them in prison, detaining them arbitriliy, levelling their cities, destroying their hospitals, stealing their homes, destroying their olive groves etc etc.
One is an apartheid state. The other is an occupied victim.
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They also don’t have to be both bad to be equal. Have you looked into logical fallacies … ever?
Israel has impersonated aid/medical workers to assault hospitals multiple times in this conflict. So yea I wouldn’t trust them either.
Well, they are terrorists holding hostages… they may fear the IDF getting intel from them?
I highly doubt the well being of hostages is in hamas top priorities
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Middle East Eye - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Middle East Eye:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual - United Kingdom
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
Isnt it a bit odd that you have two sources saying completely opposite things.
After all she either said it or she hasnt.
Its good we actually have a video recording of her in her voice saying she was beaten.
Very odd. have you considered israeli hasbara trolls lie and post stuff out of context. And then that later gets clarified by herself.
Surely that never happened before
Sure. But again you have her saying it on video. Is she lying? Is it AI?
She says something on a Video of a few minutes. It gets cut down to 37 seconds.
This is like taking
Sure. But again you have her saying it on video. Is she lying? Is it AI?
And cutting it down to:
“you have her lying? is it AI?”
and completely distorting the meaning of what you actually said.
I don’t get it. Did she or did she not get her hair cut and was beaten? This post appears to be stating the complete opposite.
Edit: never mind. This is the original video that was taken out of context. The cuts and bruises were from the collapsed wall.
She was beaten by hammas. The bruises she had when she was rescued were from the rescue probably or from some IDF bombing. From this people are trying to portray as if she was treated well in captivity as if she was some prisoner of war held with good conditions.
just give up already… you’re embarrassing yourself
Please point to what exactly is wrong in what I said.
She was beaten by hammas.
She clearly said, she wasn’t.
… bruces from the rescue… probably
your subjective speculation.
I uhh dont even know how can this be… You have her video saying she was beat by hammas “She clearly said she wasnt”
I just cant. Sorry.
Can you not grasp how a “clarifying statement” works? How many people need to tell you that the original was taken out of context, so the woman clarified that it wasn’t what she actually said. Do you know what context is, bud?
Thank God she was only held against her will and not beaten or mistreated otherwise.
14,000 dead Palestinian children wish they could say the same.
Judging by the estimated - in a study published in Lancet - almost 200,000 Palestinians killed in Gaza in this ongowing attack and until a few montsh ago, and the proportion of under 18 in that population (around 40%), that number is a serious under estimation and the reality is more likely 4 or 5 times more children murdered by Israel than those 14,000.
My apologies, I just took the first number on Google.
One child is too many.
I’d imagine the Palestinians being r*d in detention centers would love to be treated so kindly.
If you’re going to censor yourself, it’s critical to account for the right number of letters, or nobody will know what you’re talking about.
Right now, I’m imagining a bunch of Palestinians on skateboards doing tricks and being fucking RAD.
rid
took me a while too to guess
It’s originally a tik tok thing. The word itself can be triggering to people who have suffered sexual violence. R*d is enough to understand in context without necessarily evoking a similar traumatic response.
As if everyone didn’t have to parse that in their head to figure out what they wrote and end up with the exact same word anyway.
I can understand how it would seem that way. My partner and I both have experienced sexual violence, and we both prefer this way. Even when we talk about it out aloud, we usually say “r.” It’s not that I can’t say the word rape. In some contexts, using the actual word is warranted. It’s just a word I kind of hate. That evokes trauma and pain. People say it all the time too and it’s hard not to hear it and remember that you’ve been a victim before too. That word has a different meaning when it becomes personal, or at least in my experience it does. So I say r instead. I’m not proposing this as some kind of sweeping change across society to stop saying rape. I just prefer not to say it.
Speaking is very different. And yes, there’s very much a point to the attempt. I’m saying it doesn’t work in text, especially not in this vague form that most people won’t ever know about.
Thank you for explaining. I didn’t understand that sensitivity was the reason.
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Somewhere in the world,
somewheresomeone else has it even worse, but what does that matter? Can we not take issue with both things?It’s not somewhere else in the world. It’s being committed by the Israeli state against Palestinian detainees. That’s directly related to someone saying that the rights of the woman were being restricted in being a hostage. There are tens of thousands of Palestinian hostages. Sexual violence, torture and massive violations of human rights are rampant in Israeli detention centers.
So it’s linked to this lady because she is Israeli, and all Israelis share collective guilt and deserve collective punishment for what other Israelis have done to Palestinians?
I thought what Israel is doing in Gaza was wrong because they are punishing Palestinian civilians for the actions of Palestinian militants. I now understand your opinion is different.
When did I say anything about collective punishment for Israelis? I don’t understand how you could have gotten that from what I said.
Also, what Israel is doing in Gaza is wrong because they’re committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing. They are a settler colonial state. Everything they have ever done in Palestine is wrong.
Let’s recap. I pointed out the woman in the news story was held against her will. People replied that worse was happening to Palestinians. I pointed out that even worse can happen elsewhere. So what? It shouldn’t mean we ignore what happened to this woman.
You’re the one who came in to tie what happened to this woman to how Palestinians are treated specifically. I took that as approval of collective punishment. Otherwise, what does what this woman went through have to do with r*p in Israeli jails? What are you arguing if not that she didn’t have it as bad as victims of her government? How is that relevant unless you think what one Israeli does has relevance to how another should be treated?
The fact that she has been held hostage has been used as justification for the unlawful detainment of Palestinians. The hostages have been the central crux of all of the actions Israel has taken. It’s not that it doesn’t matter whatsoever that she was taken hostage. It’s that her being taken hostage is part of the justification for genocide of Palestinians.
you know that the only people who cry about Dresden to this day are nazis? and they sound a lot like you.
Is that even true? Seems like there is and should be debate about Dresden as well as Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
But I take from this that you feel the totally disproportionate Israeli response to the atrocities of Hamas is justified. And there I have to disagree with you.
What a weird comment to inject here.
Israel also jails children without trial or with a forced confession, and tortures them. Palestinians are jailed without charge, forced into false confessions, routinely tortured, raped, denied medical attention, and sometimes killed as a result
Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B’TSelem)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki)
Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children)
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B’TSelem)
Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR)
Palestinians have no freedom of movement. Every single person in Gaza is being held against their will.
Something her parents would probably say; thank you for adding some perspective and not being a smug asshole about the situation.
Liberals will, completely unironically, deny genocide and then go to a thread talking about how logically inconsistent conservatives are.
Y’all really don’t have any beliefs or independent thoughts, huh?
You may (or may not) have missed all the massive protests against Netanyahu and the IDF. Whatever. You’re just here to stir the shit anyway.
Clearly its Stockholm Syndrome…in that to the victims, the capters seemed to care more about keeping them alive than the supposed liberators. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a better example of Stockholm Syndrome since the actual bank robbery that spawned the term
Stockholm Syndrome isn’t a real diagnosis. It’s never been included in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The guy who coined the term in that original bank robbery never even met with the victim he labeled with it and she had good reason to be more sympathetic to her captor than the authorities that risked and dismissed the value of her life. Not unlike how Israel’s government has been responding to this hostage situation.
I probably could have worded my comment better, but yeah I was comparing the Hamas hostage situation to the original bank robbery in Stockholm where the hostages felt less endangered by the hostage takers than the authorities who were supposed to protect and save them
i mean, the feeling isn’t wrong, just look at the amount of hostages we KNOW the IDF killed themselves already
The original bank robbery was called “Stockholm Syndrome” for bullshit reasons. It’s not a real thing.
Year old account, very few controversial opinions posted, a few negative point comments, but we all have them. I don’t think they were trying to troll. Perhaps they were trying to make sense of the situation and just improperly applied the term as an experiment to see if it fit. I didn’t block this one, like I do most people who are trolling.
Thanks for the feedback.
Wow. Hilarious.
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