Don’t you love it when people say random, illogical bullshit that sounds vaguely sciency and pretends to be deep?
this is stupid. The existence of an infinite number of universes does not at all imply they must represent infinite variability.
I never realized I til this moment that is a TF2 model.
“If there is an infinite number of buckets, there must be a bucket where the other buckets don’t exist.”
If there are an infinite number of road junctions, there must be one that reaches a place where road junctions don’t exist.
That’s the airstrip.
Oof that reminds me…
When my partner and I had already been living together for a while, we had one of those “cuddle on the couch and deeptalk” days, when she confided that, while she was not religious in any traditional sense of the word, she felt immensely comforted by the thought of an infinite multiverse existing.
“If there’s an infinite amount of parallel worlds, then I choose to believe that even if I die here, life goes on in another world, so in a sense my being and existence do not simply vanish completely. Same for you! And hey, even if we both die, we’ll get to continue living together in some version of the infinite multiverse!”It was clearly a thought that comforted her a lot, and at the same time a rather intimate belief that she chose to share with me. So, like the idiot I am, I stared her in the face blankly and went “There’s an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1, and none of them are 2”.
I really regret that. She let me know later that that one sentence shattered the belief for her. Which is sad, because it’s such an innocent thought. There’s no religious behaviors or conditions or rituals attached to it, it’s just comforting.
It’s comments like this that make me glad I know how to read the room
😭
I usually do, I promise. Anyways, that was 6 years ago. We’re stil going strong, making the most of life in this universe :)
There’s an infinite amount of numbers within a range but the limits of the range are still constraints. What’s to say the end of our lives is a constraint on the multiverse? Maybe within a local minima of historically similar universes one individual’s life could be so important that theres a shared constraint, but I kinda doubt that that exists across the entire multiverse. But really we will never know. As such your partner isn’t wrong still, they just have to take an agnostic approach that there’s no way to know. But it’s not wrong to choose to believe that your deaths are not constraints on the entire multiverse, that’s just their interpretation.
Your comment doesn’t really make sense though, a two doesn’t appear in the numbers between zero and one because it’s not the type of thing that appears in that set. Alternative version of you absolutely are things that appear in a multiverse.
Sorry, I should have gone more into the actual belief. For her it was less of an “if I make a decision that leads to my death in this universe, there surely is a parallel universe where I did not!”, it was “if I die in this universe, thanks to an infinite multiverse, there must be one where I spontaneously start exisitng with all my exact memories from the previous life”.
Ah ok.
Sounds like she’s essentially describing the Quantum Immortality concept. It’s definitely highly speculative but it’s not beyond the pale.
Ouch. I feel that comment on many levels.
This is illogical. That is all.
It’s funny, outside of Hollywood, Comic Books, and Bertrand Russel trying to disprove religion by taking Hawking out of context, is there any real evidence for a multiverse?
I mean I believe that reality is truly infinite and the only reason we have limitations is because we haven’t found a way around them yet (Science distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced in my book), so I’m not calling bullshit, but I’m also asking for evidence beyond going “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if?”
The big bang theory posits the creation of multiple universes during the event. To accept the big bang theory as a model for the beginning of our universe is to accept the possibility of multiple universes.
Does it? As far as I am aware, the Big Bang modle only describes how the early universe developed, not how it began.
Well, fair enough then.
There is the Mandela effect if you want to believe that, but that is also easier to explain by people having shit memory.
Berenstein/berenstain bears are like the main Mandela effect thing(other than mandela)
Personally it was always “Berenstain Bears” I know it was because I watched the Nick Jr. show as a kid, and the ads would use the “BerenstAin” name
The Mandela Effect is interesting because while I do remember the correct version of most events (Pikachu did not have a black stripe, Rich Uncle Pennybags did not have a Moncole, Nelson Mandela did not die in prison, “No, I AM your father”), there are still some that I straight up know did not happen the way I remember them.
For example: Fruit of the Loom had a Cornucopia, I remember because it was the first time I had ever seen one. The only reason I knew what a cornucopia was, was due to it being on the underwear logo.
That said I have heard about memory being incredibly suggestible, studies about people who were tricked into believing they had been on a Hot Air Balloon when they had not or seeing Bugs Bunny at Disney World despite that not being a Disney character. So Mandela Effect could be bullshit.
There are some stories that interest me from time to time.
Like in a Youtube Video discussing Mandela Effect, James Rolfe better known as the Angry Video Game Nerd, had always remembered the pay off to “My face on the one dollar bill”, being that the money Joker gives out at the end of Tim Burton’s Batman movie was counterfeit with the Joker’s face on it… But that’s never actually revealed in the movie.
The reason that interests me, is that the prop money DID have Jack Nicholson’s face on it, but it’s something you can only find out by reading about the development of the movie as it’s never shown to the camera clearly enough for you to tell. Making it interesting that James remembered a factual detail he couldn’t possibly remember from watching the movie.
Now it’s easy to say “Well James just read about the prop money being Joker themed and got mixed up about where he heard the money from”
My dad is even more interesting, for reasons beyond it being someone I know
My dad claims he is a magnet for this kind of phenomenon, claims that the “Time People” are always messing with him, and that he regularly experiences time out of order. The thing is though he might actually be right.
We’ve had times where we’re talking and he says something that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about and makes no sense at all, and I’m like “Are you okay?”
Like one time I was just checking in on him, and he starts rambling about Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen for some reason… I just assume he’s tired, since he works two jobs and all., often coming home from one just to change uniforms and go to the other.
And then months later, we’re talking about weird experiences we’ve had while high (He’s a stoner, I’m not but I partake from time to time), and I mentioned that sometimes I “see things” before they happen, but I can’t stop them from happening, then when they happen… It’s like… I know they’re going to happen, but I can’t prevent them happening, and I react like I’m “supposed to”
And he says the thing he said before about Dr. Manhattan, referencing the scene where he’s on Mars and knows his lady friend is going to tell him something, she tells him, and he still acts surprised, because he was SUPPOSED to be surprised…
It’s the same thing he said only now there’s context for it, and then our heads start hurting and we flashback to the conversation where he had no reason to say it.
Freaky stuff happens to him.
The weirdest one though, is one time he straight up told me that he was from another universe.
See I don’t live with my dad, he’s a state a way and I only sometimes see him. Last time I saw him it was for my cousin’s graduation, and he says to me, he’s not my dad, he’s a version of him from another universe.
Because he never married my stepmother, and I’m confused because he did and they have a daughter, my half-sister. He tells me a story of how years ago he screwed up on a big date way back when, and never got over her. So he went out drinking with some friends of his at this restaurant, and he sees her at the bar, he’s had a few drinks and they tell him that he needs to win her back, do this one grand romantic gesture.
Now he’s drunk this sounds like a good idea, and he goes up to her, but sees she’s with a guy, having a nice time, and decides not to ruin her night. He tells me, that he goes home in tears, his heart broken, and falls asleep alone. The next day, he wakes up and she’s in the kitchen, finds that he and her have been married for months, she loves him, and has no recollection of being anywhere last night except home with him. So he just smiles, and accepts that he has been given a gift, and just tells her that it was all a bad dream he had been having.
Creepy story if true. Not sure I believe it, but it’s an interesting tale to say the least.
Now, it’s possible that my Dad is just fucking with me because he thinks it’s funny, but… believe what you want I guess. Maybe my day have some kind of schizophrenic disorder or maladaptive day dreaming. I don’t know, and I probably never will.
It was always a hypothesis that filled in a math equation but has no proof.
So, bout as much evidence as Dark Matter.
I used to not believe in Dark Matter, but during a recent shroom trip I saw that it existed and that my being was even composed of it. That to an extent all of us are made of equal parts matter and dark matter, and the parts of us that are made of Dark Matter are the reason why we have paranormal experiences, for they’re actually quite normal experiences just happening to us on a level where we can’t see all the details.
And if I were the Spirit Science guy I’d walk away fully believing THAT.
Quantum results are hard to explain, but proven (by experiment) to be real. There’s a particular mathematical/logical definition of something being ‘real’ and ‘local’, that I’ve still only half got my head around, and it should be true but isn’t.
The main experiment is two particles that, if you check one, it affects what you’ll see in the other in a particular, but subtle , way. And it’s proven mathematically impossible to find an explanation where they don’t either communicate faster than the speed of light (so, not ‘local’) but the effect actually happens (‘real’).
The trick is in the statistics - the pattern of results - that match up between the two particles in this very particular way. And one way to explain it is that different options are also happening, but in a different universe - i.e. every time two different things could happen, reality splits into two realities, one where this happens and one where that happens.
That’s for specific quantum events, but some think those such quantum events underlie all choices and possibilities in reality. So, scale up that idea and you get ‘infinite’ (actually just very very many) parallel universes, one for every possibility that could ever have happened, branching off into more each time a (quantum) choice happens.
I have not seen not even on paper a universe which allows casual paradoxes like that comment says
because you arent in the universe that has that paper
It’s being suppressed by Big Paper. Or by Big Universe.
If there are multiple countries on the planet Earth, that must mean there’s a country where the other countries don’t exist.
Infinite countries. Which mumblemumble clearly makes it all work.
I think that’s North Korea
You spelled United States of America wrong.
Most Americans acknowledge the existence of other countries, that just refuse to believe those other countries have access to electricity, plumbing, or the internet.
Other countries exist, they just belong the United Empire.
Infinite doesn’t mean everything. Infinite can include a repeating pattern, even a huge repeating pattern which seems random at first. Not everything you could possibly imagine would necessarily have to exist in the multiverse.
And even if infinite and perfectly random, some things may just not be feasible and just not exist.
If pi is infinite, that means pi must contain i
Well obviously. It’s right there next to the p.
It does not contain e though.
except in the universe it is feasible and exists
In an infinite list of letters, every single book ever written, every word ever spoken (and to be written/spoken) should be present no?
I guess the only caveat is that in an infinite universe certain physical laws could be universal (which would prevent eg any universe to break the speed of light)? But some version of me having hair past my 30s should certainly exist no?
Or am I getting this completely wrong?
Or am I getting this completely wrong?
I mean, the whole premise is getting this completely wrong. The actual physics idea behind multiple universes is that every possibility in specific quantum events happens, each one being in a separate, ‘parallel’, universe where everything else in the universe is exactly the same. All the laws of physics stay the same, just the results of all the cumulative random possibilities are different.
This is also not the only explanation of that strange phenomenon in quantum mechanics.
This infinite list of letters could be "any random combination of letters EXCEPT when that makes the word “banana”. A subset of an infinite set can still be infinite.
Infinite != infinite randomness
Ah, fair enough. So that’s similar to “infinite universes of infinite possibilities, except light can never go faster than 300.000 km/sec”?
“A” repeating is an infinite list of letters
Lol, OK. Yeah. Didn’t think about caveats. :D
I know one thing that’s absolutely true about the multiverse!
The multiverse is a convenient excuse to reboot superheroes for a new audience to make money.Infinite options does not mean all options. Eg in the set natural numbers 0-infinity the set of infinite numbers between 0-1 (or between any other 2 adjacent numbers) is absent.
So you can definitely have an infinite multiverse where in all of them infinite multiverses exist.
Yes, even in an infinite multiverse, there is no universe where science_memes commenters have sex.
Mitosis in every single one of them.
There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1, but none of them is 2.
Infinite options does not mean all options.
Right, as you said the natural numbers is an infinite set but it doesn’t contain fractional numbers between adjacent natural numbers. The set of natural numbers also doesn’t contain letters, or colors, or varieties of geese. You can even add other constraints to the set and still have an infinite set that contains even fewer possible values, like you could have the set of all natural numbers that don’t contain the digit 3.
People make the mistake of thinking that an infinite set of universes means that there is every conceivable version of a universe out there, but that’s not the case. Murphy’s law says that anything that can happen will happen, but that means things are still constrained by what can happen. Reality is constrained by consistent logic, the most basic of which is the identity law, p = p. It is a contradiction for both p and ~p to be true, a violation of reality. So if the multiverse is a reality, it is a single reality that is self consistent, meaning there is no Universe in the multiverse for which there doesn’t exist a multiverse.
Given an unlimited amount of tries, I can win any major lottery 10 times in a row.
Given an unlimited amount of tries, I still cannot go super saiyan. Believe me, I’m close to that amount of tries!
Do you make your back tingle?
Have you tried screaming and flexing really hard?
Ya, I pooped a little and lost consciousness.
Only a little? There’s your problem!
Ahhh, I get it. So you are saying that I need to eat taco Bell beforehand. Because that is the one sure way I can be sure that I will thoroughly shit myself when I am unconscious.
Precisely! Only then will you achieve super saiyan!
Wait wouldn’t that only be super saying? As in we would super be talking about it?
Given an unlimited number of fries, I can go super fat.
Or, the conjecture of the multiverse, being non falsifiable, makes it as scientific as the boogie man or the tooth fairy. God of the gaps anyone?
It’s not purely a wild, non-falsifiable idea. It comes from a theory to reconcile the very-much-falsifiable-but-not-falsified results of quantum mechanics. IIRC there are three main theories to interpret the results and all of them are down-and-out weird. Last I looked, one of them at least is controversial about whether or not it could (in principle) be experimentally differentiated from the others.
This is such anti-intellectual cliche, and it’s a damn shame that a generation of Reddit pseudo-intellectuals parroting a Feynman quote has made it so wide spread.
Which is the anti-intellectual cliché?
The post I replied to.
You mean the post at the top? Or the comment you replied to? Either way I don’t really see the cliché.
Do you mean that something being non-falsifiable making it non-scientific is a cliché? That’s how science works: by having theories that can be differentiated with experiment.
Or, of the post, that multiverses contain every conceivable universe, then why anti-intellectual, when it’s just a silly joke?
The one I replied too. The habit of immediately and smugly going “It can’t be falsified and is therefore the same as the tooth-fairy!” to any ideas that class with their intuition is very much a well worn cliche of reddit style pseudo-intellectual “I fucking love science” types. Bonus points if it is falsifiable.
And yes, falsifiablity is a part of science, but this idea that science means going “if you don’t have a definite experiment that you can perform right now then the idea is stupid and wrong and you’re an idiot for even talking about it” is massively reductive at best and flat out wrong at worst, and if these people applied it in all cases - rather than just to the ones that their gut feeling is against - they’d be throwing out a huge amount of ideas that are most definitely science.
I mean jesus, imagine how arrogant you would have to be to discard all of the very detailed work extremely talented scientists have done in Quantum Foundations as being no different to believing in the tooth fairy.
I see. Thank you for your more explanatory reply. I must not hang out in the right circles, because I haven’t seen that enough to see it as a cliché. Perhaps the commenter was not dismissing multiverse theory because of a gut reaction, but because they’re fed up themselves with popular and un-falsifiable speculation being treated as science.
The incredible thing with these weird results is they are falsifiable - this “spooky action at a distance” that famous pre-redditor Albert dismissed as nonsense. Bell’s inequality, that lies at the heart of the trouble, is experimentally demonstrable.
But there’s a gap between that science and the interpretations of it. And maybe coming from they popular end, it’s easy to see the wilder speculations as nothing more than unprovable imagination.
But in the end, after re-writing much of my comment, I have to concede the point. I feel you’ve made a bit of a straw man to attack, but I agree a thing can seem unapproachable scientifically - non-falsifiable - but still be valid science. Even in this area, IIRC, part of the debate over the main quantum mechanics interpretations is quite whether they can be falsified or experimentally differentiated: and that itself takes time and logic and mathematics… it takes science!
I must not hang out in the right circles, because I haven’t seen that enough to see it as a cliché.
Possibly. Give it time I suppose
Perhaps the commenter was not dismissing multiverse theory because of a gut reaction, but because they’re fed up themselves with popular and un-falsifiable speculation being treated as science.
Perhaps, but you’d have a hard time tying to convince Princeton University that the the paper they gave Hugh Everett a PhD in Physics for is in fact “not science” and is in fact more like “the boogey man or the tooth fairy.” Or trying to convince the scientific community that people like Sean Carroll and David Deutsch and all the other physicists doing work in Quantum Foundations from a many worlds perspective aren’t scientists.
this “spooky action at a distance” that famous pre-redditor Albert dismissed as nonsense.
I’m sorry, but this is just straight up not true; Einstein absolutely did not dismiss entanglement as nonsense
But there’s a gap between that science and the interpretations of it.
Different “interpretations” (really they are different theories) absolutely have experimental differences. Some aren’t performable today, but if that is your criteria, then the Higgs Boson was like the tooth fairy for decades. But even beyond that some are performable, and have been performed, we have done test for dynamical collapse interpretations. Had they come back positive they would have falsified Many Worlds, ie. they are literally a form of falsification.
And maybe coming from they popular end, it’s easy to see the wilder speculations as nothing more than unprovable imagination.
And many worlds is not one of those wilder speculations that is nothing more than unprovable imaginations.
that itself takes time and logic and mathematics… it takes science!
Indeed, which means not dismissing and idea as nonsense without understanding it.
Except in the universe where that is how it works.
