anon needs to build a time machine and rescue my parents’ 32" Trinitron. That shit was top of the line.
The actual pixels are more defined. You can’t just emulate crt fuzz without emulating crt fuzz.
I also think gaming now a days just feels different and not in a childhood wonder sort of way but a walking into an obscure bookstore kind of way. Social media makes learning about a video game way too easy. Spoilers are hard to avoid and the more people talk about a game the less novel it feels. I didn’t spend much time on forums as a kid so most games i learned about was via word of mouth or from demo disks. I’ll never forget my first play through of Halo 1 on the OG xbox. Played it coop with my bro. Was completely scared shitless when the flood was introduced. No one told me there were zombies in my shoot man game. Like no one talked about it. Good times.
On spoilers - also the whole goddamm culture shifted. A lot of people won’t pickup a game until they see at least gameplay vid of it or read tens of posts etc. Spoilers became culturally mainstream.
I do not partake and dive blind most of the time and still got that wonderfull wonder sensation I got as a kiddo.
Only ya know. We got so powerfull machines now that devs tend to focus on looks rather than story/gameplay. Thankfully slowly changing, in parts thanks to indie devs.
I would also make an argument that the limited technology at the time led to different kinds of games versus what we see now. Sure there’s the obvious things like internet enabled games and being able to get updates but I think even the less thought about things like restrictions on RAM and the power of computers led to restrictions on what you could do which led to specific types of games which aren’t made that way anymore because they don’t have to work around those restrictions. And while in a lot of cases those restrictions going away has allowed for better mechanics and gameplay it also still makes the games different which to people who were used to and liked those games will feel not as good anymore.
There’s something about those early games that were in the first generation of their genres and people hadn’t figured out the rules yet. Lots of experimental stuff. Things that could created a wall that the average kid would stall on.
Try playing the Marathon trilogy and then go right to Halo CE. You’ll realize why Cortana walks you though most of the game. The line “This cave is not a natural formation” came from when the opening was more natural looking, but even with the dialog, play testers had trouble fining the opening. Still way better then dumping yellow tape or green lights everywhere.
OOP should try the Mega Drive (Genesis) ROM of Pier Solar, then. Couldn’t “look fake” even if it tried
As Yahtzee has suggested, people aren’t nostalgic for old games, but for how they felt playing old games. Much harder to capture that, and beautiful pixel art alone isn’t enough.
Because as a child, everything is novel and new for you so you get that sense of high and awe seeing something new. But now as adults, recreating that feeling is almost impossible because you have already experienced it before.
that’s why you should seek out new things to see wonder and novel in. as a person with hyperfixation/-focus, that is very easy for me.
Nothing hammers this home like raising a kid.
The sense of joy and wonder they feel about something as simple as learning how to turn on a faucet. Suddenly, they’re magical and can summon water.
It makes you feel jaded.
try envigorated. I don’t know if you watch let’s plays at all, but me I mainly do it with games that I’ve finished but can’t play again with the knowledge I already have. great puzzle and mystery solving games like obra dinn, the witness, etc. or games with amazing twists like prey… some things you can’t live through twice, but you can witness the joy in others when they do it for the first time. that’s why I do it. with kids, it’s literally everything.
you should watch the Love Death and Robots episode Pop Squad.
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You can also choose to embrace bringing them joy with each new experience, and share in their happiness that way.
You can get that feeling when learning something new as an adult, too. Your first python program is running? You renovated something in your home that your haven’t done before? Planted a tree and it’s having fruits for the first time? Changed the tires on your car? It’s awesome!
This is why I started hiking and summiting mountains. I mean, not literally why, but it’s chasing that new and novel high.
This has been language learning for me. Learning new words and expressions every day gives me that high. Stumbling through a conversation in a language I’m uncomfortable with is so scary and daunting, but when you actually have a meaningful conversation where both parties get something out of it, it’s an incredible feeling.
You’re also literally chasing new highs though. Sounds like the whole package…
And that’s why I generally avoid games that advertise themselves as “pixel art.” I have no problem with pixel art itself and I play many pixel art games, but the art style is secondary to whether it’s fun.
a lot of what makes old game have that charm isn’t just having the good pixel art but also matching the system sprite design, color pallet and replicating the imperfect displays of the time. Which the last is the one i think tends to be forgotten about a lot. Of course not all games are trying to replicate a style but more like a general vibe.
More than that, not being aware of genocide and looming climate collapse and student loans made those old games a lot more fun :)
I think it goes more on thise lines. We got tons of great games done by very passionate people. But is hard to enjoy something if you can dedicate only 1 hour tops and then go to sleep cause you have to work tomorrow.
no indie rpg will ever make me feel like playing Golden Sun as a kid did
Yeah, they would need to be able to turn you back into your kid self, experiences and all. A lot of that magic is from you being a child.
not just you. the world you inhabit and your place in it.
like, imagine having a future, lol.
The sun will rise again!
That main menu music was so great
I love the entire OST. the Saturos theme is one of my favourite ones
I would imagine I’d absolutely love some of these indie games today as a kid. But there are things that make them less desirable to play now. The main things are being an adult with responsibilities gives you less time and tons of options for games now. I had maybe 10 games to choose to play from unless I rented.
Playing Chrono Trigger as an adult will ever make me feel like playing Chrono Trigger as a kid did.
There’s many factors, honestly. For example, a lot of pixelated games have animations that break the “pixel barrier”, eg, a character moves smoothly over half pixels. Another thing is pixel scales being completely different. Sometimes a character or an icon has larger pixels than those on a map. Another factor is simply a variety of textures and colours- older games had limited colours for most objects, counting the underlying map as an object in itself. Not every colour could be used, and sometimes, a lot games weren’t actually on the same saturation as people remember.
Music will be another factor.
A reason to use pixelated graphics isn’t necessarily for nostalgia, it’s that it’s simply easier to make the game look good and consistent. Which is excellent for an indie game. 3d graphics could be more costly and higher res graphics are harder to look better due to the added detail. With pixels, your brain kinda just fills it in and it doesn’t go to the uncanny valley.
I think good examples are the likes of windwaker and thomas was alone. Both had simplistic art styles which wasn’t pushing the console to the limits, and both are beautiful games.
I remember when I had to make a game for an assignment. Other classmates were trying to go for realism humans and such, mixing and matching downloaded graphics and textures. It looked how you’d expect. The most detailed texture I used was a skybox, then made my own textures and models which were simply flat colours and neon green cones for trees and big boxes with ramps for hills. I then played around with the emissive properties until the lighting looked nice. I got good marks, the graphics were cited as a reason.
I digress,
I think here the pixel art is too good, back in the day they wouldn’t have been making something so complex.
Also, 256 colours
Another thing is pixel scales being completely different. Sometimes a character or an icon has larger pixels than those on a map.
Stardew Valley for the most part does pixel art right, but it’s always jarring to see the player character’s weird skinny fishing line. It’s worst when it’s juxtaposed with other characters whose lines are drawn correctly:
That massive fish is also a bit jarring. Usually SDValley kinda works though because of the tiling. Wasn’t that game also almost entirely made by one dude?
The massive fish (and several other on-screen elements) are modded additions, not from ConcernedApe.
I think that fish (and the trout tag on the left side of the screen) may just have been screenshotted mid-catch. In the game, when you catch a fish you fling it through the air in an arc and then it lands in your hands:
That catch animation doesn’t show it, (maybe it’s from an earlier version of the game?), but I’m pretty sure the current version scales the sprite bigger and then smaller as it travels through its arc as sort of a 3D special effect.
it’s a mod
That’s a great spot and I tried to picture it but couldn’t so I also appreciate the screenshot
It’s not just about looks. It’s about novelty, marvel giving way to generosity towards the crunchy parts of the design. And of course, a compelling story in a new world.
It also depends on the system they’re trying to emulate the style of. This would fit fine in the PS1 “Of Mana” game. Too complex for SNES, which is what most people probably assuming graphics like this are going for.
Anon is old, anon can see through the matrix.
When you were young you didn’t see the game, you just experienced the world.
This is why shovel knight looks and feels like the old classics it’s imitating. They artificially limited themselves to color pallets and some technical limits that old systems had. I think they ended up using 18 colors instead of 16, and double the sprites on screen, among some of them. Indie games usually just go with what looks good and use modern limits because they can. Most the time it’s not a choice, they just do what works and that’s ok too.
I love limited pallettes. I love how in the original Legend of Zelda, Link changes colors a little every time the pallette swaps. I think getting creative with limited colors looks so much cooler than just having every color possible.
Restrictions breed creativity.
Eh I don’t think shovel knight looks like the old classics. It looks way too refined to me when compared to a nes title.
There’s a more comprehensive breakdown from yachtclub themselves here I was off a bit in my specific examples but overall they do a good job breaking down why their game fits and breaks the mold with lots of examples. The game is a lot more faithful to NES than the vast majority of indie pixel art games. There were a few late-gen NES titles that are relatively unknown but look way more detailed and complex than the typical NES game too.
Check out Retro City Rampage. The creator made a version that works on original NES hardware: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/retro-city-rampage-creator-makes-a-real-playable-nes-port/
It looks more like a Genesis/SNES title than NES.
I can’t remember if the game’s settings had a scanline filter switch or not, but that would be the finishing touch in my opinion.
UFO 50 is definitely the “Modern Retro” king, IMHO. The only thing missing is box art and manuals.
You’d love Tunic. It’s 3D, but damn do they ever capture that feeling, including the manual (which you collect in-game, page by page)
Tunic is just a great game hands down. I think it’s in my top 5.
Also really cool game to watch speed runs, becuase there are a lot of tricks you learn throughout your first gameplay that aren’t actually locked behind anything, just knowledge. A bit like “Outer Wilds” in that regard.
…aaaaand wishlisted on Steam! Snagging it next time it goes on sale
That’s why I love UFO 50.
It really went hard at capturing what I love about classic games. The Desert Western RPG was so good, even with all of its grind.
I haven’t played it but I have watched a little bit, and the part that it really captures in my observation, that very few modern games have the balls to capture accurately, is how uncaring some of its games are whether you are having fun.
The fun is not a gift. The fun is not automatic. The fun is your reward once you get your shit together and figure things out, and until you get yourself to that level, the game is not concerned about your experience. It’s content on its mountaintop, waiting for you to join it (if you’re up for the task, and if not, that’s okay too.)
Brilliant observation. I didn’t consider that at all!
We know what is possible today. When these old games were new they were quite frankly cutting edge and pioneering what was possible.
You don’t achieve that today even with the most dedicated adherence to retro limitations.
One could argue that the dynamic shadows of the day and night cycle in Sea of Stars were actually kind of breaking new ground in pixel art.
The era of NES was wild. I don’t think it is purely kid’s-experience nostalgia although that is certainly a factor. A lot of the language of gaming and the genres that are still in existence in some form today were being created for the first time, mostly from thin air. Wolf3d and Doom were probably the last time that a new “language” for gaming was created in that same way, directly in the mainstream of gaming and outside of niche / experimental games.
Also, the scope was incredible. For no reason. I along with a lot of other people had the experience of playing one level or one screen of an NES game and assuming at first that it was the whole game. No, that is 2% of the game. Why did they make so much game? For no reason? With no particular competition that would cause them to need to invest all the resources into creating this luxuriously massive experience? It can only be love.
Nah, Wolfenstein and Doom were not the last. GTA and TES brought us open world games later on. Max Payne brought us cinema-like adventures. Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice is just a complete mind fuck never seen before. And you’re forgetting VR, VR is full of unprecedented experiences, from physical action in Beat Saber to immersive story in HL: Alyx to time manipulating Superhot VR. And my personal favourite - No Man’s Sky, it’s just a very unusual game.
I’m not talking about just creating something that hadn’t been seen before. That’s always going to be happening. I’m talking about creating a genre from scratch that didn’t exist at all before.
HL: Alyx does some great stuff but it doesn’t have buttons that do basic concepts that buttons hadn’t done before, in the same way that run/jump/shoot was invented as functions for the A and B buttons in Super Mario, or the inventory screen was invented for Zelda 1. I’m not intending to be critical of the idea of building on new stuff and inventing new paradigms to go on top of it. I’m just saying that the initial creation is a special type of time.
I would actually describe the structure of VR games as a feature that has prevented them from seeing widespread adoption in the same way that the early game consoles got near-universal adoption: They don’t invent a new language. They just try to retrofit the existing languages of first-person video games into their new environment. Maybe there is no new paradigm that’s suitable for VR in a way that would make it groundbreaking and make possible some things that are totally different from “sticking the player in first person into a first person game instead of showing stuff on screen.” Maybe there is and it just hasn’t been invented yet. I don’t know. But it seems like they’re not adding all that much beyond just immersing you in the game world. They’re still looking for that change that happened before from Adventure to Zelda or from Pitfall to Mario.
You’re wrong.
Glad we got that cleared up lol
you need a good scanline filter if you want modern pixels to look like classic ones
Incorrect, you need a good NTSC filter. Scanlines on their own are hotdog water.
And then your European players wonder why the color artifacts are all wrong. PAL and NTSC had different distinct looks (and presumably so did SECAM).
If it helps, for all fairness, the Nintendo, Sega, and Sony consoles were all Japanese, so NTSC was their native target before getting converted to PAL. It may not be what EU kids remember growing up, but NTSC is technically more “correct” from that perspective.
With that being said, always use PAL filters with PAL versions of games and NTSC filters for NTSC versions.
Oh! You just reminded me. I had some old hotdog water on the stove and I cooked some rice in it. Was delicious. Pretty sure boiling killed any bacteria. So there ya go: a cooking tip in with yer video game comments.
you can never go home
yea funny enough I got that high when recently playing Planescape torment but not Baldurs Gate I, dont know why. Still a good game though.
Baldurs gate is good but it really shows how much they were trying to capitalise on 5e actually gaining mainstream attention (not that I blame em, folks gotta eat) Divinity Original Sin 2 is a previous title by the same company and IMO feels a lot better to play both mechanically and in terms of actually having a unique feeling universe.
OP is talking about the first Baldur’s Gate game. Not Baldur’s Gate 3 which you are talking about. Also Baldur’s Gate 3 was in production in 2017. While it may have been in response to Stranger Things season 1 coming out, I honestly doubt it was that. BG3 is a huge labor of love and that dev team was much more intent on making a good game than cashing in on popularity of any particular ttrpg system. There are no dlc or micro transactions and marketing was sparse. I pretty much only heard about it through word of mouth. If the goal was to capitalize, they failed that. You don’t capitalize by making a game that people can buy once and have nearly limitless experiences in without spending a dime more.
huh? BG I is 2nd edition DnD? Played both Divinity I and II, liked I better
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No it isn’t. Bg1 and 2 are 2e. Icewind dale is the weird 3/3.5 ruleset
IWD is also 2e. IWD2 and Neverwinter Nights were 3e. NWN2 was 3.5e.
yea no BG I has THAC0, that should be sufficient
