First RCS now this, today has been wild
I’m a Linux guy and I don’t really care about Windows, but I’m glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.
Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.
If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.
I’ve seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist because of Dieselgate and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.
I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to slow down the current IT giants until we get our shit together.
I’m glad that we do it, but i wouldn’t say we are better than anyone else.
Thanks for the honest take, a lot of people get caught up in the idea that if an organization does something that aligns with them, they are good or doing it for the same reasons.
There is a lot of protectionism at the heart of the EU. They are quite happy to heavily regulate Big Tech when it’s not based in their own market. Unfortunately they don’t have quite the same passion for nurturing the European tech industry as much as stifling the foreign ones.
They are it purely fighting these fights for the greater good, or they wouldn’t also be pushing things like the recent browser certificate debacle.
I mean we have SAP but they are probably not affected by this law.
SAP
All my homies hate SAP
Nah, it still would be much harder.
Because the EU exists out of many different countries with each their own government.
To lobby something through you have to bribe the majority of them, instead of just one.
Yeah because dieselgate was a travesty and all companies have a moral obligation to find ways around the idiocy of the US EPA as they actively make our cars more harmful to the environment by writing poorly thought out rules that encourage larger vehicles as well as completely failing to understand how to calculate diesel emissions for vehicles in a sensible manner.
EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic “it’s for the children’s safety” lies.
Though we have to remind ourselves that it’s mainly the EU Commission who does this.
The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it’s really only the Commission who doesn’t want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.
Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.
they tried to ban P2P encryption
They recently enshrined it as an unalienable human right as a world first.
America is getting paid to do it.
Maybe the FCC is still resisting for now.Did you mean FTC?
Not sure anymore. Maybe both I guess
That’s what I was talking about: https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/15/23962881/fcc-anti-digital-discrimination-pass
California is doing okay, all things considered
I wonder if Windows in Non-EU areas does not have this kind of choice.
Well, does not matter, I use Linux, too.
America is a huge corporation.
America empowers these bozos
I’m one illness or accident from being financially ruined, what do you really expect me to do about it?
Start a revolution.
This apparently only applies to Europe, say least for now.
Wait for it. Slow roll outs
How do you know someone uses Linux?
Don’t worry they’ll tell you
Hey hey hey, don’t just go around generalizing. Not all Linux users are like that (but I am, and I use arch BTW).
Like I’m sure we’re bound to find at least ONE Linux user who doesn’t tell.
That would be mee
Opsi
As a Linux user (and ex arch user btw), I’m deeply offended.
I use Linux (one that’s based on Arch btw) Make one guess at:
- my diet
- what I think is the best text editor
Seriously, how am I supposed to keep quiet when I find a clearly superior choice? Especially when most people feel a psychological barrier to trying it, that turns out to be not nearly as big as the adcantages.
diet: coffee
editor: vim
:wq
Points for the editor, but weirdly enough, not a lot of coffee (<1 per day) and I didn’t drink coffee at all before a few weeks ago.
at least meat-reduced diet
vim
Exactly! I use neovim as a full IDE (got started quickly using the nvchad template). And I think you know which “at least meat-reduced” diet is most associated with evangelizing ;)
what I think is the best text editor
ed?
ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.
Can we please get these laws on a global level.
Well they’ll probably reinstall it with every update anyway.
That is easy enough to block or deal with.
At least there’s the option to remove it at all that the non tech people can now easily access.
I can’t wait to see what this breaks and how the fix is to reinstall edge for all kinds of mundane issues.
Turns out edge is what renders the entire UI and uninstalling it leaves you at the console. Oh and you can’t access files because the file system is an http server accessed via edge. But it does come with QBASIC, so there’s that.
They would get massive fines if they tried that.
… then disable the update …
Not really possible anymore, Microsoft has been forcing updates since Windows 10.
I’m not disagreeing, but what entity would enforce those global laws?
I vote for angry mob with convenient access to an active volcano.
Who needs a volcano when woodchippers can park right in your driveway.
Remember to load them feet first kids!
*jots down ‘load kids feet first into chipper’
Wait, is Microsoft violating child labor laws, too!?
Well, your heart’s in the right place.
And apparently the kids feet are in the right place too!
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Same way laws are enforced now? Each country passing it and the companies needing to comply to continue operations.
Why are they force to comply right now if the laws don’t work?
You’re missing the point.
The ICC only has power in countries that let them have power. If a given country doesn’t feel like doing that, the ICC has precisely zero recourse or ability to enforce.
What should citizens in countries like that (which may or may not be dictatorships, single-party states, theocracies, or some other restrictive, un-democratic, and/or xenophobic form of government) do?
Yes and I’m saying each country should implement it themselves so that we can reach global saturation. That is what I meant in my original response to op.
You are taking what I said out of proportion. Obviously we need Superman to enforce a global ruling hand over mankind.
I was about to say that I’d prefer alien overlords but based on Superman’s origin, he’s got my vote
Space force?
La Haye International Court of Justice, of course.
And what happens when the country in question is one that doesn’t care that much about the ICC, and responds “make me”?
To wit: The United States has famously refused to subordinate itself to the ICC
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If I have to keep a chromium browser around, in addition to Firefox, I’d rather edge than mainline Chrome.
For me i went with DuckDuckGo + Firefox
95℅ of the time on Firefox and DDG is just for YouTube ( even in it’s current Beta state it can bypass YouTube’s anti adblocker )
Edge is just too problematic, Microsoft opened up Dark patterns 1.0.1 and forked Chromium and voila >> NSA certified browser
That’s a false dichotomy. There’s no shortage of Chromium browsers that are significantly better than both.
Suggestions? Preferably for both Windows and Mac
Not sure which ones are compatible with Mac. Brave is my choice but there’s also Vivaldi and several flavors of Opera.
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Which one comes with a VPN you can’t not install?
Arc is weird but pretty good once you get used to it.
DuckDuckGo is good if you want a minimal browser and don’t really care about extensions
Brave is OK if you want a slightly more private version of Chrome
Honestly though, just use Firefox.
All Mac browsers are just Safari anyway
You might be thinking of iOS browsers? Mac browsers use a variety of engines
Brave seems like a superb option.
Opera seems like a reasonable option, I guess, but I’m not sure if it has the market share to actually be seen and controversial if there was something to be controversial about.
I’m not sure I would. Edge is trash, it keeps shoving the AI bullshit, all the MSN news stuff, ads for cheaper shopping, all in your face when you first start up. While you can turn it off, it gets annoying doing that every time you reinstall or spin up a new VM. Chrome, for all its faults, is a lot less annoying freshly installed.
I appreciate your sense of relief, but don’t share it. This isn’t the first time Microsoft has been ordered to stop pushing its stuff (remember Internet Explorer?) and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
Nope. But hey look, the Democrats are coming to take your guns!
Why yes Microsoft, I am totally a European in Europe right now…
VPN to Sweden, update Windows to the EEA version, profit?
I’m not holding my breath, but we can hope.
It 's wild to think that some people might VPN to the EU for basic rights.
Freedom!
People do that China 🤷♂️
Coming to a Western country soon near you!
You wouldn’t pirate basic human rights, would you?
Välkommen!
Bless you.
Hey, 'Muricans, how come we need to pressure every company into compliance for you?
Do you really think any average citizen has any say in this whatsoever?
Yes. You’re a democracy, right? Right?
On paper yes. In reality…
Isn’t that the point of your guns? Why are all these less free states more free?
Nah, those are just so we can shoot nonwhite people and say we thought they had a gun
well, on paper also no, democracy don’t exist with only two parties, and that is writed in paper
An electoral democracy, we choose those that make the laws. Due to the 2 party system we don’t have many options for when they fail to do what they claim they will.
No, we’re a republic.
A true democracy would empower each of us to do as you say, but that’s not what’s here.
Our republic is quite corrupt due to greed and power, as well… Not as corrupt as many countries out there, mind you, but it’s alot worse than it should be.
We’re starting to resemble a corporatocracy in many ways these days as a result of all this.
‘Republic’ is about whether or not you have kings. Democracy is as opposed to autocracy, with a few other *cracys between those poles.
America is a democratic republic; the United Kingdom is a democratic monarchy. The US has a broken democratic system that does a really bad job of electing the most preferred candidate. It’s almost cheeky to call America democratic.
Great America, land of the free
Free to be shot at and advertised to
Land of the fee and home of the slave
Obviously since it’s happening for us Europeans
See: Regulatory Capture
Sorry, our country is currently on fire 😕
For $100,000 the US Congress will tell you!
Nah. Those corps will still do it at home or sell it as PR at home.
Idk, how come we need to fund your wars?
Which war? Help me out here. Vietnam? Iraq? Korea? I’m lost here … Oh wait…
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So your answer is "I could tell you, but I won’t " and a personal attack? Talk about “not flattering on you”.
So: which war the EU is involved in are you “funding”?
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Hey, 'Peans, how come you think a country larger than your pseudo continent is a homogenous hivemind?
E: what Ive learned from this comment is that apparently, all europeans share 1 single trait, which is just utterly horrid reading comprehension
Because Europe is so fucking homogenous that we stared 2 world wars just because we agree so much
We agreed so much in the past that the 30 years war could never have happened in Euro… Oh.
They agree with eachother so much in eastern Europe that there are no wars and everyone just hugs. Oh wait.
Well, we could agree on those two things, at least…
If you think saying “that nation isnt homogenous” means “all other nations are homogenous” you probably shouldnt weigh in on adult convos
Erm… Larger by land mass? Yes. Larger by GDP? No. Larger by number of inhabitants? No. Larger by amount of vastly different cultures that somehow get stuff like this done whole very decidedly not being a hive mind? Also no.
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ThEre ArE no iMmIgRaNtS in EuRopE
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As an American, you’re being silly. You’ve heard of the Silk Road? The Mediterranean? The Old World has been rubbing shoulders with each other since 4000+ years ago. We just got here in comparison.
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Firstly, no one said that.
Let me quote:
Lmfao you think europe is more culturally diverse than a country with thousands of cultures from around the world? Thats hilarious.
So yeah. That.
The rest of your comment is blatantly ignorant AND horridly racist, so I think I’ll just do is both a favor and ignore it.
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Where in your quote does it say europe has no immigrants?
40 years counts as quite a long time in american history i suppose
I mean, in terms of humans that’s 2 generations, and since diversity and populations concern humans, that’s a big head start. But you can keep applying off topic cliches if they help you feel better.
The majority of the immigrant population in 'Murica are from Europe.
I bet this person is one of those “actually, I’m 1/8th Irish” people…
It is certainly more diverse lol
American moment
The US is smaller than Europe in size of population and in area.
Thank you Europe. Once again you prove yourself to be what we all aspire to be.
As an American, all I can say is thank you Europe for continuing to have sensible legislation that forces these companies to have decent policies worldwide if only to comply with EU laws. I only use Windows on my company provided laptop but just because I don’t need to worry about it personally doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t care about how it affects others.
So apparently having consumer-friendly laws does in fact lead to better products. Cool.
Perhaps the USA and other countries should follow the EU’s good example on this.
Omg, I can’t believe this is happening !!
Today when I updated Windows11, I got copilot and we were discussing how it’s unacceptable to not let me uninstall Microsoft Edge, well I was, Copilot was just chilling it, but it did agree eventually
But this is only happening in Europe, which means Microsoft didn’t suddenly turn pure hearted, it’s just the law forcing them into it …
Yeah this isn’t as good as it sounds, the other 5 continents are still stuck with all of this garbage.
If they don’t make it international, they’re asking for piracy
They’ll just enable/disable features based on geolocation. I doubt it’ll be a whole different version like in the good old days.
If that’s the case then a determined user could enable these hidden features via Powershell, only time will tell
Yup, but then you’ll still have the same frustration we have now, running the script every time there’s a feature update and the bloat gets reinstalled. If it wasn’t for games and work I’d be using nothing but macOS and Linux.
If it wasn’t for games and work I’d be using nothing but macOS and Linux
same , although I don’t play games…
And I’ll never use Apple products, one abuser ( Microsoft ) is enough for me
I used to be super anti-apple but now buy MacBooks for the longevity. Less ewaste. Over time actually more cost effective. My daily driver is a nearly 9 year old MacBook that I replaced the battery on 2 years ago. Still getting official updates too. My father laid out twice the price of it for a high end XPS machine in 2019 and it died inside 5 years. Apple actually fix manufacturing issues without a huge amount of fuckery like HP/dell. I can’t speak to iPads and iPhones but Macs just last longer so end up being cheaper in the long run.
Skill issue, what’s stopping other countries from creating better laws?
The problem is that showing enough politicians money effectively makes you become the government. There’s minimal chance of a law being introduced unless a rich person or corporation backs it, and EU laws would interfere with their shady business practices.
Lobbying, at least here in the US.
Not big enough to force companies to make large changes. The US is, China and India are. But what about Australia or New Zealand? Or any of the individual south american countries? Too many changes, microsoft or one of the other big players will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
If they already have a version compatible with EU law, they will just roll it out instead of removing an entire country from their market.
Would be a bad business move otherwise.
Of course, only if the laws don’t force even more restrictions.
will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
That would be wonderful. They would no longer be able to enforce their patents in countries they don’t trade in; GNU/Linux users worldwide will have (patent infringing) access to the Australian/NZ version of whatever
It would suck for the games I play that need windows, but it would also give more incentive to those to port them to Linux
Valve only started doing 2-hour refunds after Australia twisted their arm about it. They brought it to the world, and it became an incredible selling point. Perhaps this will be the same thing.
Valve is a lot more consumer friendly to begin with, though. Don’t get me wrong, they did heaps of bad things too, but compared to Microsoft?
I’m not gonna hold my breath on this one
Yeah, I hope so 🤞
I was going to say, this sounds fantastical in some places.
I got Dev Home on my home rig. Swifly executed the powershell command to uninstall thr sYsTeMs aPp.
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We don’t need another web based app…Just give us the .deb, .exe, .msi or whatever…
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No thanks. I don’t need more apps bloating up my browser and slowing it down even more. Plus what if they don’t support my choice of browser? Now we’re back to square one. Just port the programs over to run on the OS. Much less headache that way
That’s more finger printing to get tracked by, no thanks. I like to keep my browser apps slim and generic as possible to blend in with other privacy concerned people.
At th same time, I 100% understand why you would find it appealing, and recognize it may very well be a good thing overall.
Lots of things already have Linux alternatives; I’ve heard people mostly stay on Linux for the anticheat-enabled games that are usually only one developer setting away from Linux compatibility.
Wrappers can be used to do it locally.
Some Android apps are basically nothing more than a web agent.
Give me the basics of the web end with a pretty html5 rendered front end locally and done. No need for web apps for which you are required to be online at all times.
I can’t think of tasks that can only be done with MS. unless you mean playing specific games, then that could be something
excel VBA macros is very bad on Linux
if you’re stuck on Excel VBA macros and are not open to other options, then you get what you deserve
Thank god for Europe!
god has nothing to do with it
You know what I mean. Sheesh.
Thank our lizard Queen in heaven.
I do understand - but as a society we’re working to remove unnecessary gendered terms from our language. I believe in doing similar with religious terms.
Language is important. If we’re thanking a deity for the work of government it’s both minimalising the work of elected representatives and exclusionary to other cultures.
In this moment, you are euphoric.
Ramen brother, Ramen!
Yeah turns out businesses behave when you legislate their misdeeds instead of just calling them job creators
Now there will be two versions of Windows. One that adheres to EU regulation, and another that’s filled with ads for everyone else.
Windows 12 Euro Trash Edition and Windows 12 Red Blooded God Anointed American Edition. If either crosses the EU boarder the computer will explode killing everyone in a 10 meter radius.
I feel like that might also violate some regulations
regulations that stifle innovation baby 😎
Yes, American munitions export controls
Alright. What about Windows 12: European cringe edition?
And the Geneva convention
There sort of already is https://www.howtogeek.com/322112/what-is-an-n-or-kn-edition-of-windows/
It’ll be one version, they’ll just force certain “features” on you based on the region you’re in as determined by your system time, GPS location, or IP address
system time, GPS location, or IP address
They can all easily be spoofed or changed.
They say if you don’t pay, you’re the product, but that’s obviously bullshit, paying solves nothing. The saying should be never trust corporations.
I just switched to Linux. Get fucked!
and that’s the only long-term winning move, because MS shenanigans will never end
Exactly. All the latest chaos that Microsoft does, you know you’ll be immune and your desktop will be the same for as long as you get bored of it lol.
My laptop gets the fun experiments, my desktop plays the games
Same except in reverse lol. My laptop is out of date fedora because I’m lazy to update since it’s a youtube/twitch machine pretty much. My desktop gets the bleeding edge + games.
I’m testing stuff on my old ThinkPad!
I may have lost my sound card drivers, but at least I’ve not got to put up with windows (don’t worry I’ve got an external soundcard)!
I’m team Linux as well
I, really really want to switch to Linux. I duel boot and use Linux for study. but there are some apps I just can’t get around, and have to switch back to Windows for. I ran some cool scripts that stripped Windows of bloat and uninstalled edge and ads, and I have to say. it’s almost as nice as Linux now. runs faster too.
Its a bit of drama but if you have a look at setting up qemu with virtual machine manager its worthwhile.
It makes virtual machines that directly utilize the hardware, meaning you can run your stripped out windows inside a window on your Linux desktop.
Its pretty hard to get your GPU to pass through but if its non-gpu oriented apps you need its perfect. My fixed windows VM boots in about 10 seconds, has next to zero network usage, uses 2 cpus and 4gb of ram, and just runs its couple of little apps no trouble every day
I’ll check this out ty
You need 2 GPUs (essentially) for GPU passthrough to work correctly. I gave it a go once and it never worked correctly. Absolutely right for non GPU apps though, or with some VM’s, older games.
Honestly what finally pushed me was when windows suddenly decided that going to sleep and keeping on sleeping was too much to ask for. Haven’t found anything that doesn’t work on Linux yet, but I mostly play games.
Same, but I switched back today. DaVinci Resolve doesn’t support AAC audio on Linux, even on the paid version (literally everything uses AAC audio). The closest thing to any kind of usable photo editor is photopea, and that’s web only.
Linux is just unusable for media creation, unfortunately.
Unless your media is made in Blender, then it’s pretty good. Inkscape has been getting nicer, too.
But that’s about it, yeah.
I really wish the affinity suite would make a linux version.
Same. That would help a lot.
Man I miss Linux, I swear one day I’ll install it on my old Mac, at least as a funny project.
Regulation works.
Once steam covers 90% of games windows becomes irrelevant.
