here are some hyper-polluting individuals:
- the Rolling Stones’ Boeing 767 (5,046 tonnes of CO2)
- Lawrence Stroll (1,512 flights)
- Thirty-nine jets linked to 30 Russian oligarchs – (30,701 tonnes of CO2)
relevant quote:
But I will say this, a movement can’t get along without a devil, and across the whole political spectrum there is a misogynistic tendency to choose a female devil, whether it’s Anita Bryant, Hillary Clinton, Marie Antoinette, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, or J.K. Rowling [or Taylor Swift]. And there’s always gonna be people who seize on any opportunity to be misogynistic. So I would advise trans people and our allies [or environmentalists] to keep in mind, that J.K. Rowling [Taylor Swift] is not the final boss of transphobia [anti-environmentalism]. She’s not our devil. The devil is the Republican Party, the Conservative Party.
—Natalie Wynn (emphasis and bracket text mine)
edit: if you can’t respond to this without using the c*nt expletive it is not helping your case lmao. mods are we okay with this? in any case, please don’t feed the trolls.
edit 2/FAQ: “but why did she threaten legal action against that college kid though?” still shitty, but refer to this comment for a good explanation of the context behind that decision.
She only threatened legal action since those memes started before when her flight movements got the attention of the right in an attempt to make her less credible of a voice speaking out against trump. And knowing how batshit insane trump cultists can be and how she’s basically the single most hated person of his base I’m not surprised that she feared for her security. Those records were public for years but the legal action only happened after someone created that meme and even fox news suddenly cared about plane emissions…
[…] For Swift, this is legitimate fear. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced actual fear for your life, but it’s crippling, and it effects your psyche. To experience that on a daily basis because of an app? You bet your goddamn ass I’m going to talk to my lawyers about what my options are.
sources/timeline for the above:
- mid 2022, the media begins scrutinizing Swift for her flying patterns
- in response, Swift’s jet drops from 19 to just over 2 flights per month
- her flights pick up slightly with the start of her massive Eras tour but still significantly less than pre-July 2022
- December 6, 2023, Swift embroiled in election conspiracy theory, basically making her MAGA’s enemy number one.
- January 30, 2024, Taylor Swift gets rid of one private jet
- February 6, 2024, news outlets first report on the cease and desist.
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Stop trying to make this about Swift being a woman.
She’s getting all this attention about it because her legal team sent a cease and desist letter to the guy tracking her jet threatening him with legal action over priding publically available tracking information.
Na, she is getting this attention because some very powerful people, who benefit from producing a lot of greenhouse gases, would prefer that everyone be mad at T Swift instead of them.
Or, the much more likely thing that private jet usage has become a big talking point on the inter etc recently and swift having by far the biggest jet emission footprint of any celebrity.
Oh yeah, I agree, it is an interesting talking point. But If you have the goal of reducing green house gas emission, is memeing on T Swift the best target for that? Don’t get me wrong it is hilarious. I just get really frustrated when people say they are doing it for the environment, when what they are doing is mostly ineffectual and playing into the desires of the major polluters (who are very wealthy).
So in my mind, either a large group of online environmentalist have decided to be less effective at working towards their goal for no reason. Or there is a significate astroturfing thing going on here. Given that oil companies have done this kind of thing multiple times in the past, I think I have a reasonable assumption. I smell bullshit and I am calling it.
How does this make her “actions wrong”? Because you disagree?
Yes, it’s legal for him to do what he’s doing, but it is also legal (and completely reasonable) for Swift to challenge that right because she fears for her safety. This is literally what our legal system is for.
There are a lot of insane people out there (and most of them tracking Swift’s plane at this moment are right wing psychopaths that wish her harm). I really can’t fucking blame her for wanting to do something about it.
So you think it’s perfectly moral for the ultra wealthy to abuse the legal system to threaten and bully random people into submission because they are ruining the billionaires image?
And again to reiterate, this is all publically available information, anyone who wants to track her jet can do so without the tracker that guy set up. She has no legal standing in her actions.
So you think it’s perfectly moral for the ultra wealthy to abuse the legal system to threaten and bully random people into submission because they are ruining the billionaires image?
Lol yeah bud, that’s what I said.
Dude, I understand it’s public information. I understand that current law (probably rightfully) allows air traffic to be tracked, including private jets.
I was simply doing something that you’re clearly incapable of, and empathizing (you remember empathy right?) with her position. A position that is markedly different than Musk’s, given that she receives a constant stream of legitimate death threats from people known to be violent; she has valid reason to fear for her life right now. I think I would probably do similar in such a situation.
I don’t think it’s “wrong” for her to seek to do what she can to protect herself, and that includes this.
The argument that “what they’re doing is legal” is pretty stupid too… I’m not even saying that I disagree that it should be legal, but how do you think laws change? The boundaries of them get tested in courts. This is not an abuse of the legal system, this is using it as intended.
Lol yeah bud, that’s what I said.
That is in fact, literarily, what you are saying and what you are continuing to say in the rest of your comment.
I was simply doing something that you’re clearly incapable of, and empathizing (you remember empathy right?) with her position.
Oh wont somebody please empathise with the poor billionaires that are using the insane wealth to bully people for criticising their insane over-use of private jets.
You guys are doing actual mental backflips to try and make Taylor Swift the victim here and its honestly just kind of sad.
given that she receives a constant stream of legitimate death threats from people known to be violent
And those people could find that same PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE information even without the guy’s tracker. So even if he did take it down, she is in literally no better position when it comes to stalkers.
Literally all getting him to take down the website does is stop people from criticising how much she uses her jet, which hurts her image. Thats it.
Like if she ACTUALLY cared that much about being tracked and her safety she could just charter private jets instead of owning her own. That way no one could track her. But she doesnt, because its not about her safety, its about her image.
This is not an abuse of the legal system, this is using it as intended.
Lmao swift stans are actually neurotic.
Lmao swift stans are actually neurotic.
FYI (because apparently this needs to be said), I’ve never once purposefully listened to a Taylor Swift song, and besides maybe two, I couldn’t even tell you if a pop song currently playing is her or not. That’s how little I care about this person’s art/music. My feelings toward her can be described as, at most, ambivalent. I’m definitely neurotic though, but that’s unrelated to this subject.
All I’m doing is empathizing with another human being. Billionaires might be (for the most part, though I’m not sure I can imagine a more ethical way to become one than how she has) awful people, but they’re still people and they deserve basic human rights such as: not being in 24/7 fear for the lives of you and your loved ones because fascists are mad that she told young people to vote.
I’m not even advocating for taking down the site or making the info no longer publicly available. I’m literally just putting myself in her shoes and rationalizing why she did what she did and understanding that I might have done the same.
We seem to be having two completely different conversations here, which I guess I shouldn’t be surprised about given that you clearly can’t comprehend nuance. Your clear hatred for this woman is clouding your ability to be a decent human. Do better.
All I’m doing is empathizing with another human being.
And all im saying is you can empathise with her without excusing her doing something immoral like harassing an innocent student.
Also you keep talking about empathy but refuse to even consider empathising with the guy being harassed by a billionaire celebrity.
Lol yeah dude that’s definitely “all you were saying”. You’re being such a reasonable interlocutor 🙄
She’s not harassing an innocent student. I don’t think it really matters to her who created it. She is just doing the one thing she can do that would maybe give her a fraction of a feeling of security back into her life. Something that I bet most of us, including you, would do. A student being involved is irrelevant.
And yeah, I do empathize with that guy as well. Assuming they didn’t create the app specifically for these types of people to be able to harass and endanger her more easily. Which he may have, I don’t really know all the details.
Isn’t that crazy? Empathizing with both people in a situation? Wild right?
Also, this pretending that it’s about giving her shit because of the environmental impact, give me a fucking break. Let’s not waste everyone’s time with that bullshit. Conservatives only “believe” in climate change, when they can use it as a cudgel against someone they feel threatened by. Actually a textbook fascist move (this isn’t a joke, it really is).
There’s no way musk doesnt get nearly a billion death threats per day, but when your job is to be known by as many people as possible, it scales up the good and the bad.
But if either of them are having a bad day I’m sure they can dry their tears with a couple hundred dollar bills and sue some more poor people into dust (completely legally!) to make themselves feel better
I would bet my next paycheck that Taylor Swift gets at least one order of magnitude more death threats on a daily basis than Elon Musk. At least.
Let’s just say there are certain demographics that tend to lash out in that manner, and they seem to overlap quite a bit with Musk fans.
And yeah dude, I get it. They’re billionaires, it’s hard to empathize. I agree to a point that they should shut the fuck up and just wipe their tears away with $100 bills. But in this case, when we’re talking about legitimate threats against her life constantly, by people who have shown to be very capable of carrying out such threats, then I can start to see why she is doing what she’s doing. Just because she’s got money doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve to live a life free from that kind of fear.
That’s all.
Then youre losing your paycheck
Then go ahead and garnish it from George Soros
I would bet my next paycheck that Taylor Swift gets at least one order of magnitude more death threats on a daily basis than Elon Musk. At least.
I worked in video games, and at one company there were five game designers, one of them a woman, the rest men.
I think she got a death/rape/etc threat once a week. One of the other designers had never even been messaged, and another designer was also the Community Manager. So, despite one guy being the literal face of the company, the single named woman on the design team got almost every single threat.
She left the industry, which is worse for it, but I don’t think anyone thought she made the wrong choice.
Let’s just say there are certain demographics that tend to lash out in that manner, and they seem to overlap quite a bit with Musk fans.
Have you seen data on this? Or is this just a stereotype you’ve adopted to understand the world?
There’s plenty of data that you could find in 3 seconds if you actually wanted. The overwhelming majority of domestic terror in the US is committed by the right. See below for sources.
Conservatives don’t exactly have a large playbook. This has basically been their go-to move for a while now. Probably because it often works.
Anyone that’s been paying any attention whatsoever would have noticed that it’s only really a specific type of person that gets the: “torment the person and their family with actionable threats 24 hours a day until their overwhelming stress and valid fear for the safety of themselves and the ones they love until they shut the fuck up and/or stop doing the specific thing they’re doing” treatment…
Curiously the target always seems to be whatever the current conservatives zeitgeist is rally against. Surely just another coincidence
Shit, female Twitch streamers get these kinds of threats just for being a woman that’s existing.
I can’t wait until the concept of “SWATting” makes its way to conservative boomer Facebook 🙄
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism;
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
Lmao simp. Taylor Swift does not care about you and will never acknowledge your existence.
How is knowing at what airport an airplane is, public information that anyone can just pull up and find without that much know how, a massive risk to safety.
And if it is, hpw is she going to stop them from dping the neglegable research themselves
It’s not about it being public information. There’s tons of shit that’s “public information,” and available to get, but there are steps that need to be taken to get it. Some more steps than others. Kind of like a soft “paywall” of sorts (minus the pay) that makes it so the internet isn’t just inundated with data constantly. And sometimes, get this, you can even be denied requests for information that’s “publicly available” if, for example, t’s deemed that you shouldn’t have it for whatever reason. But I digress…
Just because something is “publicly available information” doesn’t mean it just gets broadcasted all over the internet to anyone with a Facebook account that the algorithm knows is a hateful conservative.
It’s a joke that people are pretending that this is about free speech or something, and not about making it easier to constantly harass and threaten.
It’s about it being targeted at one specific person, and it’s about the people who are doing the targeting (which differentiates it from the Musk situation). No, not the college student who made the app, before you go there to try to undercut this argument. I’m not talking about him.
I’m talking about the people who would use a tool, that they found in their far right/conservative/republican/fascist echo chamber bubble to threaten rape and death to another human being and their loved ones.
And if it is, hpw is she going to stop them from dping the neglegable research themselves
This is kind of the crux of it, isn’t it? These people are being whipped into a frenzy by whatever hate-media they consume, and without a Fox News or Tucker Carlson or whomever else to steer that frenzy toward Taylor Swift and this app, then that info would have remained “public knowledge” behind a simple search as it probably should be.
The college kid who made the app is just a tool (witting or not).
No what I mean is the FAA has a very easy registry search, and then I go to any number of FOSS aircraft trackers and I can now find the aircraft by redgistry number. that took me what 10 minutes and I was done? no need for an app. The FAA does it because its public information the plane trackers do it because plain spotting is a genuine hobby (and public information) I am someone who holds this hobby. So taking this app down does basicly nothing, it turns 2 simple steps into 1 simple step
Ontop of this, it is unreasonable to send a LEGAL team out to send a threat when no laws a broken, in some states that is an illegal act, a request from her to stop sure is reasonable (and its reasonable for him to refuse).
It doesn’t matter how easy the search is to you or I… The people who have found this tool (or made it, I don’t know. Don’t want to accuse the student of anything untoward) are distributing it to people who would have otherwise:
-
never even knew such a possibility exists,
-
had no fucking idea how to even begin finding that information themselves regardless of how simple it may seem to you and I, and,
-
not have even had the idea to use the information that way in the first place.
This is basic transparency on the part of the FAA. They disseminate this information to keep track of things, and for research purposes. It was never intended to be used in this way.
In fact, if anything significant comes out of this, it would be to limit what info the FAA makes public (and it will skew toward private jets of course). So in the long run this will probably have the opposite effect of what you want.
The corporate bootlicking here is insane
Are you also anti union because a unionized stage crew threatens swifts profits and thus her ability to hire security?
Do you think margret thatcher has girl power?
Lol it’s funny how quickly this place became reddit. There were maybe three weeks or so there where people here actually understood and cared about nuance…
While yes it will likely remove public access that is more so because that is what capital has been wanting for a while, not only that but I would argue that this is part of the intended use case, to keep track of who is using our air ways and how often. Just because its not often thought of does not mean it is not right proper or intended.
-
Musk made the same argument.
Musk isn’t receiving credible rape and death threats at nearly the level of Swift (if he is at all, let’s be real) by people who are known for following through on such threats.
Look, I even empathize a little with Musk regarding that specific situation. If I were in his shoes, I also wouldn’t want an app like that to exist. I don’t think his situation warrants any kind of action to stop it because it’s really just an inconvenience for him. And he knew that it’s just an inconvenience, so how he handled himself from day to day didn’t really change.
For Swift, this is legitimate fear. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced actual fear for your life, but it’s crippling, and it effects your psyche.
To experience that on a daily basis because of an app? You bet your goddamn ass I’m going to talk to my lawyers about what my options are.
i linked your comment in the original post because yeah. this is the fact that no one gets.
the public information was available for ages and the cease and desist only happened after fox news et al sicced their rabid hoards on her.
we can still debate whether legal action was the “correct” option, but if you think it wasn’t understandable, or counts as “harassment” somehow, it’s because you have never been in the shoes of a woman who lives her whole life in fear.
And then they ask why men get disillusioned from the left.
But its not the left, its the center right.
True the OP is some lib shit
This right here. Posts like that are guilty of what they accuse themselfes: Making it about sexism.
Nah she’s getting attention because from the information I could gather, she has the 2nd highest carbon footprint of any single person on the planet.
Levying valid criticism on someone is not scapegoating. You can criticize more than one person for the same thing.
You can, but no one is
No one memed on Elon when he shut down his tracker? Or Kylie Jenner for the 3 minute flight?
Taylor has long had criticism for her jet use, the meme explosion is just about the media wanting to use her as hype prop while at the same time her team sued to shutdown the flight tracker kid. Posts that seem obsessed with possible damage to Taylor’s reputation sound like it is coming from a PR firm. Does Op genuinely believe that someone sees a Jet Meme and think differently of Taylor? Is Op against Taylor being the poster child for Aviation reform? I do not understand why an uninterested third party feels the need to prevent Taylor from suffering consequences of her actions merely because other heads should roll first.
ETA: I had to check if OP was a PR FIRM, check OP’s own response to Taylor Jet Memes: https://lemmy.cafe/comment/4651417
I agree with you but “lol maybe Taylor herself is a jet, that’s funny” is far from PR material
I viewed it as an answer to my question “Does Op genuinely believe that someone sees a Jet Meme and think differently of Taylor?”, I only saw the post because I checked if it was PR firm.
thanks for your commentary.
- taylor swift absolutely should face the consequences for her actions. there is no good billionaire.
- these memes kicked off in 2022, and Swift reduced jet use (significantly, but not perfectly) in response, something i have never seen from any other individual. she is still worthy of criticism but i question if what she is getting is proportionate.
- it is now 2024. i am concerned to see that Fox News is using this debacle to discredit her (good and positive) call to increase voter participation.
She isn’t getting the most hate because she is the worst offender, she is getting the most hate because she is the most famous and most beloved offender right now. People already hate the likes of Musk. Not saying this is the only reason and there’s no sexism etc involved, but it certainly is part of it. And I’d argue if calling attention to rich people’s environment sins, it’s going to get more attention the more famous and well liked the offender is. It’s ‘yes ALL billionaires are bad, even the one who’s likeable and pretty and makes good music and never says unhinged right wing stuff’.
Totally no one memed Jeff Bezos nor Zark Muckerberg nor Tonald Drump. No one.
No one memed on Elon when he shut down his tracker?
Yes they did? When he announced he was buying twitter/everyone/ was miming on him because they knew he was buying it to shut down that account.
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No u.
The only reason this has blown up is because she threatened that tracker with legal action. It’s the Streisand effect 100%. The same shit happend when Elon Musk shut down the account that was tracking him.
Gee, it’s almost like she’s worried about stalkers or something. And I was on the net when elon tried it ands it wasn’t like this
You’re treating her better than Elon purely because she’s a woman. That’s sexism
Never said she was better. I am saying boys are treated differently to girls
You’re saying it’s valid and good for her to worry about stalkers. You are not saying the same about Elon. This is purely because she is a woman and he is a man. This is sexism.
Women are not delicate flowers who need to be protected. Men are not tough monsters who do not need protecting.
Billionaires are destructive enemies of humanity - gender doesn’t affect that analysis
You are correct in entirety.
Lgbtiq have the same struggles as heterosexuals
Coloured people have the same problems as whites
Third world problems are the same as first world problems
Go home mate you’re cooked
posting this once more for reach— this is a common misconception i am seeing, where people are getting the timeline reversed.
- December 6, 2023, Swift embroiled in election conspiracy theory, basically making her MAGA’s enemy number one.
- February 6, 2024, news outlets first report on the cease and desist.
The uptick in memes kicked off most significantly in December, and while, yes, the cease and desist was embarrassing fuel for the fire, there is no evidence that it was causal in any way.
Musk gets far worse said about him.
Nice.
Objectively and demonstrably false
Have u ever seen anyone mention any billionaire on this platform?
This isn’t wrong, but the uptick in these memes coincides ridiculously with Trumps recent desire to latch on to her name.
The narrative is constantly being spun by these fucking goons.
The uptick is due to her threatening legal action against the flight tracker dude and being all over TV for football this season. I find it hard to believe the trumpers give a shit about the environment. But I suppose they could hop on the bandwagon if it fits their “enemy”
this is a common misconception i am seeing, where people are getting the timeline reversed.
- December 6, 2023, Swift embroiled in election conspiracy theory, basically making her MAGA’s enemy number one.
- February 6, 2024, news outlets first report on the cease and desist.
The uptick in memes kicked off most significantly in December, and while, yes, the cease and desist was embarrassing fuel for the fire, there is no evidence that it was causal in any way.
Please show me an onslaught of memes even 1/10 comparable from December to this past month. I’ll wait. Just because Trump is shit doesn’t mean we stop criticizing others who are wrong as well, even if they are against him. Trump is a billionaire asshole, Swift is a billionaire asshole, neither gets a pass.
will you actually change your position if i provide the requested information?
because here you go. documentation of an onslaught of conspiracy memes tracing back to September 2023 but continuing into December. and, as you correctly note, it transitions to the airplane memes again in late January 2024.
edit: make no mistake, i do not defend her. just clarifying the order in which things occurred. conservative anti-Swift sentiment was strong well before the Sweeney cease and desist, which provided the strong foundation for recent trends.
Thank you for providing that first source with no mention of plane memes at all, which is the entire point of the conversation.
i mean good news if you are looking for a significant numbers plane memes in December 2023 you are chatting with the choir lol. i don’t claim that those exist in any significant number at that time so i think there was some misunderstanding and we may agree on this point.
my analysis is that a resurgence of plane memes arose out of pre-2024 conspiracy sentiment, to put it shortly. this is in parallel with Pappa_Mo’s comment. i hope we can recconnect and see eye to eye on this. because yeah i do agree that there was a 2024 uptick in memes, though i had originally worded it in a “fuel-to-the-fire” way, your wording is not wrong.
They do give a shit about people who give a shit about the environment, at least.
Following the whole Taylor Swift/Travis Kelce/Superbowl nonsense where conservatives were worried it would provide a platform for Swift to be more vocal about her opposition to Trump, this whole “scandal,” if one can call it that, is mighty convenient in that it drowns out any other message she would have to say.
Now if she says anything against Trump, anyone can just point to her jets and claim “Democrats are supposed to care about the environment, yet Taylor Swift can’t stop flying everywhere in her two private jets. Is a hypocrite someone you should take political advice from?”
I just… I can’t bring myself to give a shit about Taylor Swift’s airplanes when BP and Shell still exist and capitalism is still the dominant economic system.
I can give a shit about both and more.
Imagine if we could only give a shit about one threat to our existence at a time. We’d be ignoring a billion others.
I mean, kudos to you for having the energy to get so far down the list of things that actually matter about climate change that you reach the one person and a few private jets section of the list, but I’d rather use that brain space to play a board game or something.
Yet you have the energy to complain about me doing it.
All energy use is equal! Also, nuance does not exist, and actually, it never did!
Imagine replying to a comment that is clearly about relative impacts, and twisting it so that it sounds like the person you are replying to has some sort of fundamental deficiency in how they perceive the world.
How wonderfully ironic!
Taylor Swift isn’t a threat to our existence, her plane emits 8000 tons of CO2 a year, roughly equivalent to the emissions of two thousand cows. At least she pays for carbon offsets.
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BP and Shell only have that much power exacly because people buy fossil fuels from them. If demand would drop, their profits and political power would drop accordingly. As long as we don’t even hold the biggest financiers of these companies responsible, how can anything change? Demand drives supply.
It’s like saying “As long as hitmans exist, I won’t give a shit about the people who pay hitmans, all consumption under capitalism is unethical anyways so anything goes.” As long as we ignore those who actually fund the problem, we won’t be able to fix anything.
No they have so much power because decades of lobbying have made it impossible to get anywhere without traveling on a road in a car— Which uses gas. This is not a problem citizens can feasibly solve, this sort if problem can only be fixed with government intervention.
Maybe this time we can solve our problems by simply just hating a powerful, successful woman though.
*By simply hating a billionaire.
Some of the criticism levied against Taylor Swift is definitely rooted in sexism, misogyny, and political bias: but not all of it.
To lump everyone criticizing Taylor Swift into the same group as the misogynists and sexists is disingenuous. She deserves criticism and is not free of it just because she’s a woman.
She’s also one of the most famous people in the world. So of course she’s going to get more flack from her visibility alone.
Thus the following can be true: Taylor Swift isn’t the only one that deserves criticism from her private jet usage. And there are those that would criticize her in bad faith because of her political alignments/because she’s a woman. But even then the criticism she has received is still completely valid.
No billionaire deserves or needs special treatment.
I mean yeah definitely fair, i don’t disagree billionaires shouldn’t exist.
I appreciate the reply. I feel like a lot of people in this thread are failing to articulate themselves properly. Though there are clearly some commenters that have (very) misogynistic views that need to be checked.
My comment has nothing to do with Taylor Swift. In fact, I’m a fan of hers. I’m entirely talking about the companies, BP and Shell.
Call me weird but when I condemn an action, I do it equally without regard for what’s between the person’s legs.
I agree that many urban areas need a lot more and better public transport, which is a systemic solution.
In rural regions it’s not practical to build enough infrastructure to replace private transport though. Electric cars are a good solution there and will also get more affordable in the next years (over the lifetime they are already roughly as cheap as gas cars).
based
in response to public pressure, Swift recently cut back on private flights and downsized to one jet
So the memes worked?
She donated one of her private jets to an underprivileged kid who didn’t have any private jets.
yep! the memes worked over a year ago. see my sources below. my concern is that the memes are spiking now when the joke has already made a difference. again, this is all valid criticism in a vacuum! but i encourage folks to consider how much the MAGA crowd has latched onto Swift as their “female devil.”
24 flights per month at the beginning of 2022
12(ish) flights per month at the beginning of 2023 while she kicked off her massive eras tour
Recently or a year ago? I think both, as she did get of the other plane just a few weeks ago.
flights were reduced in early 2023. and you are correct that she got rid of one of the planes super recently. sorry for the confusion, hope this clarifies :)
I mean it’s hilarious that we pilloried Elon Musk for trying to sue someone for tracking his private jet with publicly available records and posting this online, but the same people are defending Taylor Swift for doing the same.
I don’t think it’s a gender bias so much as it’s a bias towards people we don’t like.
It’s like saying people did it with Elon Musk because he is African.
Do you have a list of people that you’re cross-checking to make sure they’re the same? Because you know how the internet works right? Those were likely not the same people.
In my opinion, they both have the right to challenge this, so there’s nothing wrong with her doing that. Second, conservatives are currently foaming at the mouth to do harm to this woman, so I really cannot blame her for feeling unsafe. Musk is just a crybaby.
Thinking rich people have the right to threaten people for knowing and stating public information is such a bonkers take. Thats like calling organ donors unethical.
Wtf does this have to do with her gender? Are you claiming she does not top the charts in celebrity carbon emissions, but is being used as the scapegoat instead of a man?
The Conservatives aren’t attacking her because of her gender, it’s because of
theirher influence. Misogyny has nothing to do with it, they’d do the exact same with any celebrity of any identity/orientation because they’re influence conflicts with their agenda, not because of their gender.This smells a lot like ground-laying for radical feminist arguments, I can’t find any other reason you would be here making a mountain out of an imaginary anthill. Moreover, I can’t understand why anyone upvoting this would care to see a non-humorous PSA in a “hello fellow teens” vaporware frame on a surrealist/(whatever it’s called) shitposting community unless it is meant to be satire.
edit: gendered a pronoun to make it concise who the subject was
Exactly, this smells of TERF rhetoric.
The only issue id take with your comment is they most certainly wouldn’t take issue with anyone who has the carbon footprint of Swift, they’d only do it for those who they oppose. They don’t have morals, they have convenient targets.
Yeah that’s just my point, neither her CO2 emissions nor her gender comprise in any notable part the reason for the conservative hate mob attacking her. It’s only because they are scared she doesn’t align with them and has the influence for her political alignment to make an impact on voter sentiment. That’s it. Put any male celebrity in her shoes, given the same level or stardom, same political standing, same CO2 emissions, I will bet my entire life savings the MAGA crowd would smear them for much more than just CO2 emissions. With Taylor, that’s probably one of the only things they could find to poke at, and I’m sure they would have avoided doing so if they could seeing as that side of the aisle couldn’t give a rats ass about the environment.
Yeah, criticizing the Rolling Stones in 2024 is totally equivalent to criticizing Taylor Swift, yeah let’s pivot right to that. Ignore the fact that she’s arguably the most popular musician on earth right now, just played a major cultural event, and all recent events… no, let’s go back to a washed up classic rock band and meme on them instead. Yeah, that’ll work.
Fucking Swifties dude…
honestly, for me personally? the fact a “washed up classic rock band,” as you put it, is outputting more CO2 than an actually-relevant Swift? that’s a huge difference and reason to be all the more critical of The Rolling Stones. like what are they even doing all that for lol.
i criticize both and defend neither.
Yeah it sucks they seem to get a free pass, there certainly is an element of truth in this post. However, I still think the post is fighting the wrong battle. Memes will pass and Swift has certainly caused this shitstorm herself by threatening to sue a regular joe over public accessible information.
It’s a general accepted truth rich people and companies have been spewing the majority of CO2 emissions, and this post is just a whole load of “whataboutisms”.
I genuinely can’t believe I’m the first one to actively press the downvote button on this post, what a load of bullshit.
this instance has downvotes disabled which is why you are seeing as though you are the first to downvote.
i hear and understand your position, and fear not you are not alone in your opinion :)
Oh that didn’t occur to me, I retract the last part of my comment!
I only know Taylor Swift from Americans talking about her. Presumably she’s “the biggest in the world” just like the Superbowl is the biggest TV or sports event in the world, which it isn’t.
I’m just speaking to how she recently set a world record
The Rolling Stones have become the first act to reach the top 10 in the United States with new albums in every decade since the 1960s.
They may be decrepit, but they’re still massively popular. Just not so much among young people.
I assume the jet thing is just an excuse because Taylor Swift is the target du jour of the MAGA movement. They don’t care about the jet use of anyone else but are actively making up shit about Swift.
This isn’t about principles. It’s just about othering.
This is about Swift trying to take down the guy aggregating PUBLIC flight data because it inconveniences her.
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It’s a valid criticism, I’m just wondering where 90% of those folks criticizing were the last 10 years, when it would have also been a valid criticism against her, but only a select group of people called it out and I recall precisely zero memes on this specific topic. Curious, that this has only become a mainstream meme now that there is a defamation campaign actively being conducted against her by right wing media.
Because most people don’t give a shit about her until she’s in the news and she was recently all over the news?
I remember people making jokes about it last year on reddit too, so they only come up when she becomes relevant to most of us.
I find the whole “you’re just criticising a billionaire because she’s a woman” angle or “it’s because right wing smear campaign” to be much more sus. Obvs some PR firm working overtime to frame negative remarks about her as something more sinister.
Her, musk, and any other billionaire deserves to be eaten. No remorse for these shitscum.
Because most people don’t give a shit about her until she’s in the news and she was recently all over the news?
Funny how fame works
All billionaires are evil. That includes all female billionaires
I think it more coincides with the legal threats against a person who was keeping track of her flights
This is the issue, not criticising Swift in general.
OP misses the mark in my eyes, not because the misogyny isn’t fuelling the recent wave of criticism from the right (who couldn’t give two fucks about emissions since they don’t believe in climate change), but because it lumps all criticism of Swift together, valid or not, almost feeling like it’s pro-Swift rather than being anti-misogyny, and fuck being pro Swift, and excusing any of her actions (downsizing from two jets to one isn’t worthy of any praise nor defence, it’s not like she can use both at once, and is still flying just as much).
You can (and should) call out misogynists without defending the billionaire.
thank you for your nuanced response :)
i absolutely hear your qualms with my post and i wish i was a good enough rhetoricist to quell them, but i’ll just say i 100% am not in this to defend Swift. when the memes kicked off over a year ago in mid 2022 i found them really funny and rhetorically useful. she deserved the eyes on her that she got because it was proportionate to the damage she is causing.
but now it’s 2024 and she has reduced flights by over half (depending on how you count), and it’s only now that the meme has really become fashionable? this is where i see the issue, that the collective ridicule for her is now disproportionate to the damage she is involved in.
does she deserve the memes still? yeah totally. is she the very best option to meme among the dozens of celebrities and capital owners who do almost identically awful things? i personally don’t think so, not quite. is it concerning that MAGA folks have latched on to her now as evil for encouraging votes, citing CO2 emissions as though they had ever given a flying fuck about them? absolutely.
summary: i have zero defense for Swift or her actions. it is impossible to become a billionaire without exploitation. but the window of peak rhetorical opportunity for these memes has passed by over a year and it’s very unlikely that beating this dead horse is going to make any further positive change in her behaviors. i’m here to encourage you to just see that, and make your own decisions from there.
I appreciate you hearing me out and yeah, I’ve seen you around (in a non stalkery way lol) and you don’t strike me as someone who would support her, but this one meme kinda does? But then, I’m looking at it from the very far left, it would absolutely hit home with a more liberal crowd, which is probably more the target audience, so it might be just right for that. 🤷♀️
I guess it just feels icky to me to have to use she only uses one jet 3 times a day now as a positive thing, plus I have a very low tolerance for lib-coddling lol… 😂(E: nothing against those who can take it for the sake of educating them, I just can’t do it anymore, I’m blunt, and it’s up to them to take it or leave it)
Yeah it’s almost like she did something recently that got her in the news about this.
Something like sending a cease and desist letter to the kid that tracks her jet threatening bullshit legal action.
I always criticized her and every other ultra wealthy PoS. Celebrity culture needs to die off as it is anyway
Is this because she’s a woman or because she’s a billionaire? I feel like we make fun of plenty of men too
It’s because she’s threatening to sue the guy that tracks the jet.
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I’m quite confident that, more often than not, women face greater challenges than men.
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This post is fucking weird.
Yeah, I’m not doubting the validity of the statement that women definitely have hardships men don’t, but I really feel like that’s not why she’s being memed.
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She is getting this attention because some very powerful people, who benefit from producing a lot of greenhouse gases, would prefer that everyone be mad at T Swift instead of them.
Tin foil hat take
Looks like the oil company representative found me :)
Its adorable you think swift sent lawyer threats at the request of an oil company
I never said that. You should practice reading more. Don’t worry tones of people have overcome illiteracy. I believe you can too.
tones of people have overcome illiteracy
What did they do about overcoming irony?
Shes getting this attention for the same reason musk got it. She sent legal threats to someone legally pointing out public data about wasteful private flights.
Theres no secret cabal of oil magnates puppeteering internet memes. She is being mocked for trying to threaten someone over public info of her wastefulness.
Yeah, I agree, I think some of this is due to the streisand effect. And I think T Swift is dumb for trying to sue that reporter. But Elon got way less shit than this when he tried to silence the reporter tracking his flights.
As for the secret cabal of oil magnates, your right, they don’t exist. There is a public cabal of oil magnates. They have done several astroturfing campaigns in the past that are now well documented.
I’m really of two minds on the private jet thing, because she undeniably was doing it way too much and for way too short distances, but for longer distances, I can see someone of her level of fame needing to fly privately for security reasons. I doubt Taylor Swift walking through an airport and getting on a Delta flight would be especially safe for her.
I do not like the idea of celebrities traveling in private jets overall, but when you’re at Beatles-level fame? The Beatles chartered private flights too. Maybe she should charter, but I can see why flying commercial is a bad plan.
Let the mass downvoting commence.
Maybe we all need to stop subsidizing the airline industry so that these rich assholes who want to fly around all the time for their convenience can pay the entire price themselves. Airlines and airports are publicly funded and utterly unsustainable without massive infusions of government cash and protection at every step along the way.
The fact that we pretend these airline companies and airports are in any way actual businesses Is just a way for the wealthy who get to fly all the time (private jets or not) to offload the cost of their convenient transportation onto the American people.
I’m fine with government-run airlines, but I don’t think that would change the security issue I’m talking about.
I think the security issue is a non-issue, and there’s no way to “solve” it without creating greater problems and degrading other people’s rights.
The truth is, she doesn’t give a flying fuck about the consequences of her wealth getting. In some ways she is opposed to the right wing noise machine, but she is still acting as though she’s entitled to special treatment from the government including extra rights just because she’s rich.
She only decreased the number of private jet flights she was taking, and decrease the number of private jets she owned because of the public pressure. Her security is not more important than the environment.
She volunteered to take the heat off of Elon. I don’t know why she would do that, but she definitely volunteered for a lot of negative attention when she decided to target a private citizen doing something they are legally entitled to do and use her money to intimidate them out of exercising their rights.
That’s who she is deep down inside, entitled.
A non-issue? You think she doesn’t get mobbed wherever she goes? I’d call that a huge issue. Unless you think it’s okay for fans to paw at her, tear at her clothes, etc. That is what they do.
Exactly, she’s a victim. A victim of the life she chose and worked really hard to achieve. I bet she cries herself to sleep every night on her Scrooge McDuck style piles of cash.
No, she’s not a victim, she’s a security risk. Are you not reading what I’m writing? Do you think she would be the only one hurt if there were a riot?
I think Paul McCartney is/was a much bigger star than taytay and has been taking busses his entire career
I think her getting mobbed is not my problem.
She’s rich enough that she can afford private security. She’s a private citizen who can decide where she goes and where she does not go.
Nothing about anything you’ve described justifies stripping other people of their rights.
If she’s being assaulted in public, that’s an actual crime, and she should invoke the legal system then.
The legal system does not entitle her to silence people sharing publicly available information. The person who shared the movement of her private jet is not to blame for her lack of security when she gets where she’s going. No one’s mobbing her on the tarmac, no one’s crowding into the airport past security without a ticket.
She is not special. She’s just an American, she’s entitled to absolutely nothing extra. Her attempt to use the law as a weapon of intimidation simply because she has money to push it around is exactly why she deserves negative attention right now.
I didn’t say anything about her trying to silence people. This is purely about keeping her and others safe. Her presence in a public airport could literally cause a riot. You must know that.
If that were true, there’d be a riot every time a very famous person goes outside for any reason.
I’m sure she’d be approached and photographed and her privacy violated as much as people can get to her in a private lounge, but unless they were to advertise she is going to a certain airport at a specific time, it’s incredibly unlikely she’d be mobbed. Ironically, flying publicly would make her movements harder to follow.
She can certainly afford to pay for 10 extra first class tickets for her staff, it’d most likely be much cheaper than owning her own jet. I’m sure the airports would also be thrilled to offer a private entrance and area for her/other famous people to be able to avoid even walking to her VIP lounge. Maybe they could help subsidize the airports instead of average people’s taxes paying for their private airports in part.
Yeah I’m not really sure what your point is in all of this. It’s entirely reasonable to resent publicly funding this private luxury.
Maybe we publicly should not be subsidizing the private jet industry, private jet infrastructure, and teeny tiny little airports for ultra wealthy people.
If she wants to fly private then she has to accept what goes along with that. It is a very inefficient, environmentally harmful, selfish way to travel. Private jet flights are another great example of wealthy people leaching off the public.
It literally wouldnt, this handwringing is unneeded for someone who does not care about you and is not doing this for security reasons
wait, airline subsidies also go toward private jets? TIL if true.
i would love a source for further reading if you have one :)
Airports and the entire airline infrastructure is dependent upon government subsidy and protection. You’re paying for other people to fly whether or not you ever fly, and private jets benefit more from this per seat and per flight than anyone else while paying the least to support it.
holy shit thank you 🫨
Billionaires Aren’t People
The best way to make it easy to commit crimes against other humans is to turn them into non people.
I however see no problem in this instance. Carry on.
Corporations aren’t people, billionaires literally are; that’s the problem, no single human should have such an out sized share.
Remember when Taylor Swift urged her audience to go out and vote? I can’t escape the feeling that riffing constantly on her carbon footprint is a retaliation for that. They finally found something about her to latch on to.
The entire campaign started as a chantard response to her vote statement, fully gamergate equivalent. The old meme engines never stopped memeing the entire time.
No, this started because she sent a cease and desist letter to the guy that’s tracking her jet and threatened to sue him even though he’s done literally nothing wrong.
It was going before that.
Oh my sweet eternal september child…
emphatically but with understanding, this is not how things started. it might be when you became aware of it but you are getting the timeline out of order by quite a bit.
It’s why the memes started.
Or if you want to go back further this started with Elon Musks jet being tracked.
see the original post text, i have updated it with sources which clarify the timeline :)
Respectfully and sincerely, those links show you don’t know the timeliness as well as you think you do.
Her jet usage has been a topic of controversy for a while now.
That article is from June 2022.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElonJet
Then ElonJet was around since 2020 and blew up in 2021 when Musk offered the kid some money to take it down.
i don’t really like that you phrased this as an would-be insult, especially as i am very aware of these dates and articles and that they only reinforce my position that taylor swift has been under scrutiny for this long before the Sweeney cease and desist.
thank you for these links, i’ll incorporate them into the post timeline :)
Yeah no shit. They’re terrified of her, and her influence over young people.
The GOP knows that their only viable strategy is to get fewer people to vote, and the easiest way to do that is to disenfranchise young voters. So they see Taylor as a direct threat to their only means of validly winning an election.
I just don’t understand this. In any reasonable conversation, these two things have nothing to do with each other.
Who is reading Swift memes and thinking “Man, I was going to vote, but seeing how much she jets around has really made me not want to anymore.”
You all Swifties are as conspiratorial as the QAnon folks.
It’s funny because she is not a plane or made of planes, or brushes her teeth with airliners, but the funny pictures say that she is lol
the memes are funny! you’ll never catch me discounting that. i just think it’s good to question who is benefiting from the disproportionate coverage in 2024, and if a stronger case could be made to direct our meming at others. :)
I’m going to point out something else that, unfortunately, will feel like an attack to some, though I hope my viewpoint is sound:
Taylor Swift is a product of an industry supported by us. Maybe not you, the reader, specifically, though by a couple billion around the world, across often only dozens of artists. That is entertainment. That is the industry. A byproduct and need of this career is travel and you certainly aren’t taking a sailboat across the Atlantic to meet deadlines. Now, I am not blaming us. As always it is the industry and those expectations that should be blamed. We are a tiny part of a larger, global issue, though discriminated against and blamed due to our lack of individual authority. Gaslighting is a hell of a drug.
So while I can question Swift’s initial amount of private flights, I will also point out that her hopping in a plane is likely akin to us driving a car, in the essence of usage of resources. We all use in excess to some degree and she did dial it back. That alone is important. Finally, I want to call out the bandwagoners and the envious.
I haven’t knowingly listened to a single Taylor Swift song. Not sure I could name one tbh. Though for all the energy those of you who are envious put into criticism of what I can tell is one of the lesser evils amongst the many billionaires ruining this planet, you could be doing more and better. I’ll admit, many of the memes were rather funny and dunking on someone with the wealth to afford a team of private therapists can be enjoyable, it has bothered me that we leaned so hard on seemingly (so far) the one wealth enjoyer with a bit of empathy.
Anyway, on the toilet at work. So if you need a reason for this there you go. lol I recognize that I probably don’t have all the info. Plenty of people will likely come out with some nitpicked story or article or claim. On the scope of actual problems though? Taylor isn’t one of them, I feel. At least not yet. Hopefully not ever.
Seems to me it is when we are on the toilet that we are at our most reasonable.
I also know next to nothing about Taylor Swift, but if her “Swifties” want it, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s one of the first jet-setting celebs with a hydrogen or electric aircraft.
I think it would be smart PR, as well as ‘the right thing to do,’ for her to invest in some companies to help herself (and the rest of us) get to that point.
