• @Griseowulfin
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    2024 months ago

    Beehaw mods had issues moderating a flood of new users and low quality posts from here. As they put it, it was more “we don’t have the tools and staff to handle tons of new people” and less “we don’t like SIJW”.

    • alex [they, il]
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      914 months ago

      Good explanation.

      If I remember correctly they defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works because they were two huge and largely unmoderated instances but did say that they’d like to refederate if solid moderation was put in place.

      The SIJW admin and them had talks and agreed that they’d refederate when Lemmy would have decent moderation tools that allowed for that, which hasn’t happened yet.

      • SokathHisEyesOpen
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        284 months ago

        If what you’re saying is accurate, and these huge communities are largely unmoderated, then we have a pretty outstanding community here on Lemmy. Can you imagine the hate, vitriol, and absolute trash that would be visible if Twitter or Reddit were unmoderated? Yes we have some weird opinions and content, but nothing I’ve seen is overtly dangerous or hateful. Pretty cool, Lemmy. Pretty cool.

        • @sugar_in_your_tea
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          294 months ago

          A lot of it is self-selecting IMO. We’re big enough to have a good sized community, but we aren’t so big as to become a big target. That will change as Lemmy gets bigger, but it least for now, it’s small enough that the trolls probably don’t get enough attention to bother sticking around.

        • @[email protected]
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          94 months ago

          If you want trash, you can find it on Lemmy, just check the list of most defederated instances. You don’t see it because… well, they’re defederated, which itself is one of the moderation tools available in the Fediverse.

      • @Kecessa
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        13 months ago

        Because sign ups were totally open during the Reddit Exodus was what started it, it lead to a huge influx of new users that had access to their instance while they run a tight show over there…

    • @jubilationtcornpone
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      614 months ago

      I hope we’ll get to a place where they’ll refederate with us. They have some really interesting communities. I didn’t sign up for an account there because I wasn’t willing to write a 7 page essay and take the blood oath to be admitted. I’m exaggerating… a little.

      They want to be the “Elks Lodge” of the fediverse and that’s totally fine. They were pretty transparent about their reasons for defederating with us and their reasons were understandable.

      • NumbersCanBeFun
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        4 months ago

        You’re not missing too much unless you like the news discussion. Im subbed to all their communities and most of the posts outside of news is pretty lame.

        They can’t downvote anything so that’s really weird. Like I get that they want everyone to have a positive experience but how the fuck do you combat spam, irrelevant submissions or bullshit comments? The lean too heavily on moderation which is why they can’t scale with the fediverse so they defederated because their mods can’t handle the work load.

        We all know what the simplest solution would be but I won’t say the quiet part out loud 😅

      • magnetosphere
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        64 months ago

        Well, at the time, they hoped for eventual refederation, too. Personally, I do as well. We’ll see!

      • @[email protected]
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        4 months ago

        I didn’t sign up for an account there because I wasn’t willing to write a 7 page essay

        Yeah, you’re not welcome. Everyone calling a couple questions an “essay”, can shitpost somewhere else. I’m not exaggerating a bit, if someone can’t be bothered to think through a couple answers ONCE, I don’t trust them to think through the rest of their comments either.

      • squiblet
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        114 months ago

        To me, low-quality is when someone replies “lol” or “no you’re wrong lmao” vs a thoughtful post of multiple sentences.

      • sadreality
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        64 months ago

        We used to call that a shit post… Back bone of online discourse

      • AFK BRB Chocolate
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        4 months ago

        Except that wasn’t how they described it. They said they were getting a lot of posts that required moderator action, and people there said it was trolls and harassment.

        • The Quuuuuill
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          24 months ago

          A lot of NSFL stuff not tagged, a lot of blatantly transphobic and homophobic stuff meant to upset beehaw users since it’s designed to be a diverse and welcoming space. Definitively not “lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works users were posting a lot of low effort memes” and much more “a small subset of lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works users are gaming the open sign ups to make the lives of our users worse”

          • AFK BRB Chocolate
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            24 months ago

            Exactly - that description was kind of frustrating. It makes it sound like they took a drastic action to deal with a very mild annoyance, when apparently that wasn’t the case

            I’ve said before that I think Beehaw’s goal of a harassment-free and troll-free space is unlikely to succeed on a federated platform, but I respect their right to give it a shot and their actions seem reasonable given the situation.

    • dream_weasel
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      24 months ago

      Man that is weird. Thank you for the link; I have such mixed feelings.

      On the one hand, yes I think it makes a ton of sense to vet your userbase if you want to cultivate a particular sort of discussion (i.e., you want thoughtful comments vs shitposts and memes). OTOH, the response reads like a “For WUSSIES ONLY” want ad. It’s the internet dude, toughen up a little. For the same reason, HOLY SHIT how do you have an instance without downvote? You can’t curate content on moderation a lone. But then, maybe that’s why they are defederated.

      • @[email protected]
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        44 months ago

        It’s the internet dude, toughen up a little.

        That is such a weird take. People go and create a space deliberately aimed at making people feel more welcome than on the rest of the internet, and you come and shit on it because… Why? Are people not allowed to create and seek out spaces where they’re at least semi-protected from the bullshit greeting them everywhere else? Or do you feel entitled to interact with everyone on the internet however you like, regardless of their needs, and are upset to find out that sometimes, you can’t?

        I’m glad for you that you don’t have the need for a place like beehaw, but other people sometimes just want to take a break from all the bullshit, and they have every right to do so, even on the internet.

        • dream_weasel
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          -14 months ago

          Can you not smell the irony here?

          “Nobody needs to listen to your crass and entitled take on safe spaces; think of their needs! Here is my entitled and intentionally provocative take on YOUR take, fuck your needs stranger.”

          Fortunately, this is not beehaw so we can have this enlightened exchange of ideas.

          • @[email protected]
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            14 months ago

            There’s no irony here, that’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. My point is not that every space on the internet needs to be as protected as beehaw. My point is that it’s valid for people to create and seek out spaces like beehaw if they feel like it, and to be protective of them, which you didn’t seem to understand. But of course it’s just as valid to not need that and engage in the kind of argument we’re having here right now, because different places can have different rules, and that’s totally fine, as long as you respect the rules of whatever place you interact with.

            • dream_weasel
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              -14 months ago

              I’m not in beehaw, I’m out here in a reality-based internet forum. I see why people might want something protected, but that doesn’t make it less weird to me, and it IS totally fine to think that it’s weird.

              Beehaw is to Lemmy (or any open forum on the internet) as planet fitness is to fitness. It’s idealized and safe to the point that it no longer really fits in it’s category. You can make the internet nice the same way you can get fit on bagels and donuts while walking the track: by pretending.

              Nothing is wrong with pretend, but if you ever watch LARP you’ll understand that it’s strange to come across in the wild when adults do it.

              • @[email protected]
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                13 months ago

                What are you even talking about. The people on beehaw are not trying to pretend that the internet as such is nice. They are creating a community with a specific code of conduct, and that is just as real as any other place on the internet. You can still talk about shitty stuff, and you can have dissent, conflict and discussion on there, nobody pretends that that all doesn’t exist. The only requirement is that you approach with respect and well-meaning by default for everyone around, there’s nothing else to it. On the contrary, I feel like people who don’t want to follow these rules are the ones pretending - pretending that they’re not interacting with real people, that anything they say doesn’t affect others.

                You seem to be under the impression that any “nice” space must be fake, because, I don’t know, people are inherently not nice, or something, and thus everyone must be just pretending? That’s a pretty sad way to view the world, and absolutely not true in my experience. I know plenty of great places and communities made of people that just genuinely want the best for others by default, both online and offline, and it takes no pretending, it only takes a bit of caution to keep the very few people out that are not there to participate constructively and can’t or don’t want to clear the pretty low bar of respect and well-meaning.

      • @[email protected]
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        -94 months ago

        It’s the internet dude, toughen up a little.

        What, can’t take getting kicked out of the care bear club, tough guy? Their tiny wussie banhammers too much for you? Go ahead, downvote me, show everyone ALL your power!

        (Hi, this is my non-beehaw alt.)

        • dream_weasel
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          34 months ago

          I don’t get it? I’m happy to chat and be called a retard or whatever. Downvotes also fine. I just like to chat / argue/ debate.

          I don’t care about beehaw specifically. The post here says something like even one negative experience can take a huge amount of effort to undo… Really? Is it all that serious on the internet?

          I’m not trying to bait you or be shitty or anything. Why does it matter so much?

          • @[email protected]
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            4 months ago

            Different people take things different ways, some have been taking shit all their life, some are at a breaking point, some are already broken and trying to pick up the pieces.

            If you haven’t experienced any of that, then congratulations, you’re one of the lucky and/or young and/or sociopathic ones. Go out there and have fun! Break a leg, lose a finger, get mauled, set your hair on fire, get drowned, have people you trusted call you names dozens of times a day for a couple decades, get abused, beaten down… and when you’ve had enough, go on the internet.

            Stuff isn’t “all that serious on the internet”, it gets serious IRL.

            After that, some people go on the internet and don’t feel like taking even the slightest extra bit of shit, so they don’t participate, communities degenerate exponentially, leaving behind only memes and shit flingers, a corpse full of “tough guys” where any serious debate is dead before arrival. Not a problem if you have ads or sell blue checkmarks though!

            To avoid that, Beehaw has a single main rule: be nice. Don’t know how to chat/argue/debate while being nice to each other? Well, there is your chance to learn, the community will be glad to help if you’re serious. Or just hop on and unwind for a while. If you try to stir shit up though, you get shown the door.

            • dream_weasel
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              -54 months ago

              Sounds like a fine reason not to federate with beehaw to me. If you need a space to be safe safe, you’re better off not having people like me close to it.

              The world isnt nice. Neither am I :).

              • @[email protected]
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                -34 months ago

                It works both ways, really. You don’t want to be close when a nice guy snaps.

                Safe spaces are not just to feel safe from you, they’re also to keep staying nice.

      • Nerd02
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        34 months ago

        Sure looks like it. Is that not the case? I’m not familiar with your instance.

        • @[email protected]
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          74 months ago

          I don’t know, I just figured someone would have. I guess we’re just a flyover instance.

          • The Quuuuuill
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            04 months ago

            Its one of the best run instances in the federation tbh. And it has a clear purpose of scope which means it doesn’t get as overwhelmed as a general purpose instance

  • TWeaK
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    164 months ago

    To add to what others have said, the reason beehaw defederated is because they have particular rules (eg no downvotes) that they’re very strict about to ensure that their instance is the safe space they want it to be. It’s not so much that lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works users were acting up against beehaw, just that beehaw expects users to be very well behaved in their instance.

      • The Quuuuuill
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        24 months ago

        I have noticed a trend within myself, similar to out of state plates, that once I notice one rude user from an instance I spend a few days seeing other users from that instance being rude and goings “figures”

        never mind I encounter many perfectly pleasant users from that instance

  • @Boozilla
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    154 months ago

    My experience on Beehaw so far is that 80% of them are nice and 20% of them are Portlandia characters.

    • @[email protected]
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      164 months ago

      I have an alt there, the admin defederated due to the infamous literal shit spammer.

      It might be worth informing him that the issue has been solved

          • The Quuuuuill
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            104 months ago

            Its down at the very bottom of this thread sitting at -35 votes and still not removed by a mod. I reported it, but I’m also from a different instance and may or may not have burned a few bridges with the management of this instance on my way out

  • LanternEverywhere
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    74 months ago

    You can’t say “we” on a fediverse system, because the post is gonna be seen by everyone everywhere. I’m not on sh.itjust.works, I’m viewing your post on kbin, and it’s also gonna be seen on all the other lemmy servers that are federated with yours.

      • LanternEverywhere
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        4 months ago

        That’s my point exactly. Their title asks “Does anyone know why we’re defederated from beehaw?” but the majority of people reading this post will be on instances that AREN’T defederated with beehaw. The post needs to say “Does anyone know why sh.itjust.works is defederated from beehaw?”

        • @Sethayy
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          284 months ago

          I mean it doesn’t take much critical thinking to realize defederation is per instance, so mayyybbbeee they’re talking about the instance they’re both part of and posting in.

          • snooggums
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            4 months ago

            It takes two seconds to mention the instance when talking about an instance specific topic.

            Stop trying to discourage suggestions to improve clarity.

            • @Sethayy
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              164 months ago

              you could also stop browsing other instances main?

              Takes 1 second to think about it, even less time

              • CMLVI
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                -24 months ago

                I’m seeing this from just the All page on kbin. That’s where I find other communities I may want to join.

                I have not left my instance to see this post.

                • @Sethayy
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                  54 months ago

                  Yet this is a post from another instance yes?

                  So maybe this is where that critical thinking comes in, if you set out to view other instances, don’t be afraid if you just happen upon other instances

                • hypelightfly
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                  34 months ago

                  This is a Kbin problem with not showing the instance name for communities and users. The solution is for kbin to fix it’s UI not for users to add unnecessary information to their post titles.

                  I suggest you make a post in the Kbin meta magazine if this bothers you instead of complaining to people who did nothing wrong.

              • snooggums
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                -24 months ago

                I don’t browse other instances’ main, they show up under All together from any federated instance on kbin.

                • @Sethayy
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                  54 months ago

                  Ok then understand when you view all instances, you might just see another instance

              • LanternEverywhere
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                Pretty much everyone is seeing it just by looking at their instance’s homepage, they’re not browsing on sh.itjust.works’s page. If you post on your instance’s main page, then EVERYONE on EVERY instance will see it on THEIR instance’s homepage too. That’s how federation works.

                • @IthronMorn
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                  64 months ago

                  So, in addition to posting in a community specific page I should also clarify for idiots who don’t know how the technology they’re using or who can’t take a moment and think for themselves about what’s flashing on their screens?

                • @Sethayy
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                  54 months ago

                  You mean if youre viewing all? Then yeah you might get all posts (no friggin way). This is where that critical thinking comes in

            • sik0fewl
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              84 months ago

              You’re suggesting that every single post to this community mentions the instance name?

              • snooggums
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                -34 months ago

                How did you get ‘every post ever’ from ‘instance specific topic’?

                • sik0fewl
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                  84 months ago

                  Because this community is the “Home of the sh.itjust.works instance”.

                • The Quuuuuill
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                  84 months ago

                  This is the community for discussing sh.itjust.works. that’s what this whole ass community is

                • hypelightfly
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                  34 months ago

                  Every post in this community is an instance specific topic. That’s the point of the community.

        • The Quuuuuill
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          224 months ago

          They posted on the community for discussing the server they’re on. There’s some onus on you to look at what communities someone is posting to

        • @FurballOP
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          134 months ago

          I posted it in the community for sh.itjust.works

        • @[email protected]
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          54 months ago

          It’s further exacerbated if you’re using apps that don’t immediately show the instance a post is from

          • @sugar_in_your_tea
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            54 months ago

            Even so, the image that this post is discussing specifically mentions the sh.itjust.works instance. So even if your app sucks, the linked post gives you all the context you need to understand that this is specifically discussing the sh.itjust.works instance.

        • @[email protected]
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          34 months ago

          The majority of people are reading this either from Lemmy’s UI, or from some app for Lemmy, both of which clearly show which community+instance this was posted to.

          Ask kbin devs to fix their UI and do the same.

    • @bogdugg
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      204 months ago

      There appears to be some miscommunication between instances in this thread regarding how posts appear from other communities. I think many arguments are stemming from this, so to clear things up:

      It is trivial for users on sh.itjust.works to see what is posted where. It is less obvious for kbin.social users to do the same. Personally, I think it’s a kbin issue for not surfacing enough post information.

      • @sugar_in_your_tea
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        44 months ago

        That’s pretty awful. Can you at least get the instance if you hover over “main”?

        • @bogdugg
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          54 months ago

          Yes on desktop, no on mobile (as mentioned already).

        • sik0fewl
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          24 months ago

          On mobile, you need to click into post to see. It’s one of my biggest annoyances with kbin.

    • Match!!
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      24 months ago

      This is more of a problem about English making no distinction between “we” (us including you) and “we” (us excluding you)

      • @sugar_in_your_tea
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        4 months ago

        That’s related, but it should still be pretty clear from context.

        If I say, “the current President doesn’t represent us,” I’m obviously not talking about the whole world, or even the whole country, but the specific subgroup that I’m a part of (i.e. maybe my demographic, political party, etc). If I say, “we need to take responsibility for the state of the planet,” I’m talking about everyone in the whole world, not just me and my specific demographic or political party.

        It would be a lot clearer if we had better words in English, but it is usually quite clear from context. In this case, this is posted to the sh.itjust.works’ “main” community, and the post specifically mentions sh.itjust.works in the image that’s linked. It’s pretty clear it’s talking specifically about the sh.itjust.works instance.

      • @[email protected]
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        4 months ago

        The same mistake could be made, since OP assumed the audience is the SIJW instance, thus using inclusive we, when actually its the whole federation, the exclusive we could have been used.

    • magnetosphere
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      14 months ago

      Yup. Im reading this on kbin too, and my initial reaction was “Beehaw is defederated from kbin? When did that happen?!?”

    • @[email protected]
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      -24 months ago

      Yeah, really wish people would mention their instance, it’s more of a guessing game trying to work out what people they’re actually referring to

  • @icepuncher69
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    4 months ago

    The short version is because the mods there are very special (in abad way) and like to gatekeep their echochamber as much as possible.

    The long one is because they have a vision where their platform is more safe to its users which should be more likeminded individuals and would like to keep it as true and safe as possible acording to their vision, which im not sure what it really is, from what i heard is that they are very left leaning but in an extreme way and dont like discidents, so anyone thats not as likeminded as them is just straight up not welcome then. They probably call disicidents harasers and just ban them. So an echochamber.

    Now officially what they said is that everybody but them sucks at moderating and wont refederate untill they dont suck anymore. They say thats because everyone doesnt have sophisticated tools for moderating but i think they just whant everyone to enforce their ideals everywhere else, and if thats the case i believe we are better of without them.

      • @icepuncher69
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        4 months ago

        Well i rather be called a wanker and get downvoted to oblivion for commenting unpopular comments than to get straight up banned for it. Thats the type of shit that made me leave reddit instead of keep fighting overly sensitive jannies and nearsighted leadership. It just gets old really fast, and its no way to live.

        • @[email protected]
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          -14 months ago

          Your comments so far are uninformed drivel and speculation, which only gets made worse by the fact that the rules of the instance are public for anyone to see. In practice, the mods have too much leniency in many cases, and unlike other communities, allow for actually fixing your behavior (or drunken comments), instead of pulling Reddit shit like banning you for appealing a random suspension.

          • @icepuncher69
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            4 months ago

            Well thats why im being speculative about it, since i have not been to behaw myself nor are planning to since from what i read they are heavy on shit i dont like, and bessides because i dont care enough to “better inform myself” on some random niche fediverse instance, im just spewing out what i heard, and i dont like what i heard abbout it and its that they do much censorship, thats why i recomend people to not go there since i would like that people dont have to deal with censorship.

            • @can
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              14 months ago

              and bessides because i dont care enough to “better inform myself” on some random niche fediverse instance, im just spewing out what i heard

              Why not just say nothing then?

              • @icepuncher69
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                4 months ago

                Go back to beehaw if you whant to censor/shush people you dont agree with, kid.

                • @can
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                  03 months ago

                  lmao you’re the one who seems upset to have to read an opposing opinion

              • @icepuncher69
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                4 months ago

                Could say the same about you. Beating a 3 day old post. Get over it.