Roses are red
Violets are blue
Oversimplified political apathy
Is what gave you Trump 2
Apathy benefits only the republicans
Democrats better not put forward candidates people are apathetic about then.
Responsibility lies with “The Democrats” (some sort of far away secret group that I can’t influence) and not with any American. If those Democrats can’t give me my perfect candidate, then I’ll just give up and let the fascists win. Also, I can’t figure out why they won’t do this–my ideal liberal candidate would appeal to the majority of Americans!
It is never the party’s job to appeal to voters. There is one designated party that is just owed support and should never have to craft another appeal besides “The Republicans can’t fill out the paperwork properly, that is why we will build the wall faster, put people in concentration camps at greater numbers, and do fascism better and more politely than the dumb, knuckle-dragging fascists”
Removed by mod
No, Democrats and Liberals using Trump 2 as an excuse to be vocally pro-genocide and forcing people to accept pro-fascism is what caused Trump 2, since the party cannot fail only be failed by voters willing to accept fascism but not turned off by crude, ham-fisted forms of fascism. The problem, supposedly, is people that oppose Trump’s policies, rather than just needing the Trump policies being polite. It is the Democrat’s need to always adopt all of the previous Republican policies, and their only goal is being the Republicans, but polite. If Genocide and fascism is not a red line, but completely acceptable to support, as long as you can imagine another regime doing the genocide slightly worse, there is no evil you will not work for and support.
Voting is not a sign of support for everything the candidate does. It’s a choice for who you want to be in the position, and none of the above is not a possible outcome.
Choosing to not vote means you’re choosing whoever the majority of voters pick
Or maybe, we can use this to protest and vote for political change. We cannot allow lobbies to buy politicians anymore, and campaign spending must be capped.
That was poetic as shit, man
here’s an example for you to drive home why sentiment like this is dumb and creates false equivalencies. when I was 14, I worked at a grocery store. there were two managers that I would get scheduled with. they both sucked and were awful human beings. however, one was a known child predator. which one do you think I’d rather get scheduled with?
The sentiment isn’t dumb. It’s true. The Democrats don’t give a fuck about us plebs. I voted for Harris and absolutely will vote for/choose the lesser evil as long as I’m still able. Doing so does not mean the Dems give any fucks about me.
Remember when Bernie had real momentum behind him and the Dems sabotaged him because Hillary was determined to have her run at the presidency? If the Democratic party gave a fuck about the voting public they’d have gone whole hog behind Bernie.
It the Dems cared about normies, they’d be doing more than performative filibusters that accomplish nothing. If the Democratic party cared they’d be throwing up every fucking roadblock they could to actually try and stop that motherfucker Trump and his fucking cronies.
Are the Dems a better option than the Republicans? Yes. Do the Dems care about us? No. They’re just the less shitty choice.
I agree. I didn’t say you’re wrong. I’m just saying that the way this the meme is phrased creates a false equivalency that is misleading unless spelled out like you did
Got it. I misunderstood your comment. My apologies!
I couldve worded it better and replaced “sentiment like this” with “statements like this” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To map your analogy to the US 2 party system the one who isn’t a known child predator is also a child predator and works to keeps the other one in power. They both work for the same super predator.
Removed by mod
Your daily reminder that blueMAGA don’t consider Palestinians human
bLuEmAgA….
Such cringe.
Honestly I’m wondering what part of what I said lead you to believe what you claim to believe I said? Do you believe that Biden was actually Netanyahu in disguise? Do you believe that the guy in office who wants to ship Gazans off to Egypt so he can build a resort on what was their homes?
No, I think you believe that triggering Americans with false equivalencies is entertaining, and you’re probably right.
What I’m having trouble with is deciding if you’re pushing this narrative for russia, to keep Americans distracted while krasnov disassembles the whole thing from inside, or if you’re supporting Israeli PR, making everyone look toward the big bad guy instead of the big bad guy
See, this is why I don’t consider BlueMAGA liberals to be any better than regular MAGA; they behave exactly the same. When challenged they start throwing out obviously absurd falsehood and playing dumb (like trying to claim Biden had no involvement in Isreal’s genocide, or that Biden didn’t propose ship the people of Gaza to Egypt before Trump ever did), not because they actually think any of it is true (nobody alive seriously believes that the Biden administration had nothing to do with Isreal’s genocide), but just to frustrate and annoy by wasting your time.
They then immediately jump to accusing all who disagree with them of being secret agents of a grand Qanon-style conspiracy with lots of codenames and internet lore.
Oh, I get it, the .ml instance is where the r/conservatives went, I’m starting to figure out this fediverse stuff already!
SOcIaliStS aRe ACtUAllY coNsErVatIVes In dIsGUise
ah yes, r/conservative, famous for its opposition to the Palestinian genocide.
Even with Biden exiting late, that was a winnable election and the dems botched it by trying to fit as much evil as they thought they could get away with into the platform-- so they could cash the most checks from AIPAC.
If Harris had just said two weeks before the general that she thought what was going on was genocide, she’d be president right now and the minimum of campaign funding would have been lost. Sure the far right would never donate to the dems again, but when you look at what their donations cost us all, why would anyone take that money anyway?
Bringing their priorities into the party was always a massive mistake by DNC leadership.
And the dems like yourself learned nothing from the loss and keep preaching to others to accept lesser evils. When it comes to crimes against humanity I think you’ll find for the dems that enough of their base says “never again – for any ethnicity” that they should not even try this again unless they absolutely want to lose. Theres barely enough base to even try to win again in any case. We’re past any sort of ‘optimizing for highest $$’ strategizing and just fighting for the party to even exist at all anymore. So maybe take your lesser evil metaphor and fold it till its all sharp corners and do the needful.
What makes you think that?
What evidence do you have?
The fact a bunch of people on Twitter said it doesn’t mean it’s a 1:1 ratio to voting.
All the polls agree people lean more towards Israel than Palestine. Particularly in swing states like Ohio and Pennsylvania.
Once true, not anymore, unless you are talking within a far right republican silo. Support of zionism is now a losing issue, especially with democratic party respondents.
“53% of Americans have unfavorable view of Israel, compared to 42% in 2022” https://www.timesofisrael.com/most-americans-dont-want-the-us-to-take-over-gaza-pew-survey-finds/
“https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx”
Not favoring Israel’s behavior is not the same thing as not supporting Israel existing.
And yet two thirds of Americans supported the most pro-Israel candidate we’ve ever had.
Nobody knows “what would have happened” and suggesting it is stupid. Ain’t nothing predictable about this dimension.
Voting and issue polling is not exactly a totally random and unpredictable phenomenon. I know my peeps. If Harris said the words-- even pretended to deviate from Biden, youth and progressives would have showed. And yes, she would have lost the pro war crowd, but thats a tiny group compared to the ones who didnt vote or voted third party.
The youth never show.
And the “pro-war crowd” is larger than the “anti-war crowd” where it comes to Israel.
Note true.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx
Who knew that murdering innocent human beings in cold blood would have consequences. Time to open that pocketbook and buy more hasbara marketing, zionists. And the world hasnt even witnessed the mass starvation yet. Getting away with that without a military intervention by someone more powerful is going to be really expensive isnt it.
I’m sure you zionists already have a rough cost projection, whats the budget on that?
And yet more than half backed Trump, by far the more pro-Israel candidate.
She would have been president easily, but she loves right wing genocidal shit
I’m not a democrat and if I ever turn into one please put me down
Neither is also an option. You don’t need to put up with either manager.
great point I should have simply not worked and let my family starve. truly genius intellect
I mean there is the difficult but not acquiescent solution, that coincidentally carries parallels to the real world, of unionizing your work place and using the power of collective bargaining to demand better conditions. This is hard work and takes time and effort, but instead of recognizing that and trying to help, people check out. And those pushing for it are called unrealistic tools of the bad manager and that we demand perfection, while every year the ‘lesser evil’ manager gets a bit more touchy with his subordinates.
Further in the real world analog of this, the ‘lesser evil’ manager is bombing children, and driving us towards climate catastrophe. Yes democratic politicians are better then republican ones, but that doesn’t negate the point of the meme. They do not give a fuck about you, and they will drive us off the climate cliff, they will bomb more children, they will give more tools to the police state, and they will hire more ICE agents. With such stakes we need to do the hard thing and demand better.
Liberals would sooner imagine the end of existence, than the thousands of other alternatives and types of political action and organizing, other than voting for their genocidal parties.
Many imperialized peoples in the world rejected liberalism and its controlled opposition parties, and decided to build their own working class parties to oppose capitalist domination… and they freed themselves from imperialism and uplifted millions of people out of poverty in the process.
Despite being far poorer and less educated than imperial-core liberals, they are much more intelligent, and realize that step 1, is to form their own pro-worker / pro-peasant parties. They don’t eat the shit on a plate given to them like US liberals are happy to do.
You were 14. What family?
some of us had to work. not everyone has parents who can hold down jobs and bring in money. I worked at a grocery store cause it was easy to grab the perfectly good expired stuff being tossed.
spoken like a nazi camp guard.
You are literally the one in the right in this pic. Shaming people for wanting to improve the world rather than voting for your status quo genocidal party.
This meme is the literal antithesis of all of your comments, Mr. “lesser evil”
very funny meme to go with, considering that “choosing the slightly less evil option” is in fact not improving anything about society, but instead just watching society get worse, at a slower pace. you are very intelligent!!
“choosing the less evil option” and then continuing to protest, resist, and break shit will bring about change though. especially when the less evil option didn’t vow to bring in the national guard to crack down on pro Palestine protestors.
y’all are centrists masquerading as leftists, you care more about what you seem to be right and true than the consequences of it
And you are neoliberal cancer, which does nothing to help or improve society
SOcIaliStS aRe ACtUAllY coNsErVatIVes In dIsGUise
I’ve never realized how young everyone on Lemmy must be until I came across this thread.
“Just get a different job.” and “Both parties are bad.” are exactly the useless nihilistic asshole attitudes I had about things when I was about half my current age.
lemmy actually tends to skew older than a lot of platforms (ive seen stats for this around just don’t have any on hand). the person I responded to above is actually one of the creators of lemmy. unfortunately, lemmy also skews towards chronically online and white, which means there’s a lot of those opinions floating around.
Yeah, probably an unfair take on my part to chalk it up to age instead of emotional maturity.
Nihilism is just so unproductive. I used to think that attitudes like that were such a smart and obvious response to the absurd state of the world but it’s just an excuse to not engage with reality or accept personal responsibility.
- The downvotes were from the pedophile’s wife
Avoid that rapist molesting manager, Trump.
That’s what happens when lobbies can just buy your politicians
funniest comment section of all time. my country truly will never change for the better.
I, John Brown, am now quite certain, that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with blood.
He did know that already in 1859
This “both sides” is bullshit when you are getting a train run on you by the Republicans…
And the leader of the Democrats describes his job as “keeping the left pro Israel”.
Correct, but still not even close to the same thing. More of this “balanced” stuff.
Anywho on the plus side, he’s getting wrecked in the polls vs AOC who’s looking to take his place though.
Genocide apologist
Removed by mod
No u
I’m an Independent. But there’s no “leader” of the Democrats, it’s a big-tent party. Chuck is head of the group of Democratic senators, but he doesn’t dictate things outside of Senate business and we don’t blindly all follow everything he says. That’s the difference between electing public servants and people in a cult.
EDIT: Downvote all you want, this is a simple fact. You’re allowed to just want to be mad! But I don’t know why people click the “down” button just because they don’t like what was said… Has anyone used actual logic and facts to disprove me? Of course not…
The only time Democrats won’t fall in line is when they have to vote for Republican budget bills.
Removed by mod
Interesting.
Obama dropped an average of 80 bombs per day on the ME and North Africa during his presidency. The number of civilians murdered is impossible to calculate.
For a USAmerican(or any other person), their primary concern would be their own safety, right?
Unless they can form/support a major third party, they are forced to a two-choice system, right?
The USA is not the world, and its citizens should start looking towards the welfare of the people their country murders.
True
Choosing not to participate in the two choice system is how you get a third choice btw
What would the steps be for that?
I’m not USAmerican, so I don’t know much of the base level stuff there. I think they have a green party or so. But are they a good/distinct enough choice?
Yet clearly that did not fucking happen and people are STILL getting genocided on top of many many more shitty things. Life is worse for everyone now congrats.
When both choices explicitely lead to mass murder its mandatory for any ethical person to do all they can to make some third outcome happen.
Voting quietly for what may be slightly less mass murder but certainly is still mass murder is a pathetic and shameful way to chart a course forward. A handful of us have more dignity than that.
Choosing not to participate is how you become dominated by one of the parties, possibly the one you like the least. The way to actually be able to participate is by trying to change the system itself. By that I mean changing First Past the Post voting in each state, as this is the means through which other political parties would be able to spring up. Another option is to run for government yourself as an actor for change within one of the major political parties.
Make no mistake, changing the system is possible. Alaska and Maine have both done it already. Other states can do it too. I think trying alternative voting systems such as ranked robin voting, STAR voting, score voting, or even ranked choice voting would be a major step towards other political parties and to move away from the most the least liked candidates winning elections.
I’m not sure why this was voted down, real lasting solutions require hard work and organizing to make change. Mind you, changing the system of how we vote alone isn’t the end step, but a starting place for change.
Are you denying that the Dems are shit? Just because the Reps are worse and currently in power?
What kind of an argument is that supposed to be?
What are you talking about the initial argument is completely insane to be begin with. I think Biden came into office and reduce child poverty or hunger or something by half as his first action.
We’re gonna compare that to Trump destroying the economy, removing due process, open up national parks to logging, letting DOGE cut departments with corruption, invading other countries?
Biden gleefully engaged in one of the worst genocides of the era. He should be in a cell in the Hague.
I agree I think it’s fucking horrible and I think Chuck Schumer and everyone on any side of the political aisle that upheld this should be in a jail cell too.
100% agreed. I’m forgetting my history though, what did they used to do with genociders and war criminals? Something about a rope or a wall.
And its a little past time that the entire Democratic party acknowledge that what Biden did was genocide, and what Harris was proposing was continuing with it.
Dems shouldnt measure ourselves by what republicans do, if they ever want to win an election again.
What are you talking about the initial argument is completely insane to be begin with. I think Biden came into office and reduce child poverty or hunger or something by half as his first action.
Are you having a stroke? I don’t follow your point and/or syntax.
We’re gonna compare that to Trump destroying the economy, removing due process, open up national parks to logging, letting DOGE cut departments with corruption, invading other countries?
What do you want from me? Obviously we agree that Trump is worse than the Dems.
That still doesn’t make the Dems “not bad”.
Nobody said the Dems were perfect OR not bad through the chain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence - is what this post is.
Nobody said the Dems were perfect OR not bad through the chain.
Never claimed that someone claimed that. Again: how is the original post wrong?
Two parties in a two party system is no case of “apples and oranges”. That’s as close to a fair comparison as you’re gonna get.
Ghonorrea and pancreatic cancer are two things I don’t want to have. Is this “false equivalency” as well?
Two parties in a two party system is no case of “apples and oranges”. That’s as close to a fair comuarison as yo’'re gonna get
stroke much?
seriously, this isn’t a “fair comparison” because it doesn’t address any sort of nuance nor is it supposed to. It’s supposed to make people go: “yeah the dems suck too” rather than understand anything about what’s going on.
If you claim to be on the same page then whatever, we can just agree on our core points leave it at that.
stroke much?
I guess you never make typos, then. Huh? /s
seriously, this isn’t a “fair comparison” because it doesn’t address any sort of nuance nor is it supposed to.
I’m sorry that I slandered ghonorrea by comparing it to pancreatic cancer. Clearly I forgot the nUaNcE between these two horrible sicknesses. /s
Wait. How can there be any “nuance” if you can’t compare the two parties? Is a comparison of apples with oranges flawed because of the “nuance”?
It’s supposed to make people go: “yeah the dems suck too” rather than understand anything about what’s going on.
That’s what you think the intent is. I think that it’s supposed to state that the US democratic system is not suitable for a fair and equitable world and the Dems are not the solution of the mess the US is in.
You can have your own interpretation but don’t assume that this was OP’s intent.
You really don’t get it, huh?
People heard that shit last time, and they voted democrat, and Biden won. And ABSOLUTELY NOTHING changed.
At the end of the day, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, just like they did with trump, and with Obama, and with every single president who has taken office in god knows how many decades.
And still you’re here yapping “oh noes the horrors, vote Dems”.
Bro, the Dems aren’t LISTENING! Get a Bernie up there, or an AOC, or anyone that the people actually believe will do anything other than feeding the same interests they have been feeding.
And if you’re too thick to realize that, at least you’re not alone, the whole DNC is right there with you.
I can’t deal with US politics right now and this thread.
I’m fucking Canadian and people upvoting this both sides nonsense is getting my blood boiling.
I thought this enlightened centrist shit was over with but people are bringing it up like they’re some next-level IQ genius. When in reality they’re trying their to push people to the right (whether they understand it or not).
When is your country going to return the land they stole to its indigenous peoples? When is the US democratic party going to stop supporting the genocide of Palestine?
If its people not voting for the US democratic party, rather than either of the above issues that “gets your blood boiling”, you might need to re-evaluate which side of the white supremacist line you’re on.
whether they understand it or not
If such a thing can be done without understanding, how do you know that you aren’t the one who has been pushed to the right and that you aren’t doing the work of dragging others along with you?
I’m fucking Canadian
So you probably dont even understand the full context of what you’re talking about.
Arent there other countries political websites you can go bother people on? Try Australia, your fellow commonwealth country (sorry australians). Theres plenty of other places to be a touriust with strong opinions about other peoples governments.
What does you being Canadian have to do with anything?
deleted by creator
ICE and deportations grew massively during Obama’s presidency.
By the numbers: Under the Obama administration, total ICE deportations were above 385,000 each year in fiscal years 2009-2011, and hit a high of 409,849 in fiscal 2012. The numbers dropped to below 250,000 in fiscal years 2015 and 2016.
deleted by creator
blueMAGA fascists don’t think non-Americans are human
deleted by creator
Least incoherent fascist
When it involves citizens, it’s a travesty. When, it’s literally everyone else (the overwhelming fucking majority affected by ICE deportations), it’s acceptable collateral, bonus brownie points when it’s done by the Blue team.
Get a grip.
deleted by creator
Did you already forget that it was you that dismissed the deportation statistics posted above during one of Team Blue’s occupation with “ok but this time it’s Team Red and it involves our citizens! This is worse”? So when the Blues do it without citizens, somehow that’s a “fine price to pay”? Is it perhaps, bipartisan unity we’re witnessing? No, it couldn’t be!
Do you understand the underlying racism with that sentiment, and that for as long as you don’t, that you’ll find it difficult to get a grip with reality?
Genocide apologist
deleted by creator
You don’t realise it, but people like you would vote for hitler or claim hitler was the same as other parties.
Lol, what a fucking stupid insult “oh, you oppose genocide? Well guess what, in my imagination, you vote for Hitler!”
Meanwhile, in the actual real world, you support actual genocide.
I don’t recall the democrats supporting rapists… Or threatening others.
Ignoring the accusations against Biden himself, systemic rape is a huge part of the genocide that the Democrats support.
You’ve literally got Trump now trying to become third term president to avoid jail. It’s a dictatorship mate
K, you were already committing genocide, I don’t really care about your precious standards and norms.
deleted by creator
You’re targeting 1 issue specifically
That one issue: the wholesale extermination of an entire country.
My point is, Trump is actually behaving eeringly similar to Hitler at times.
So were the democrats, when they committed genocide.
Trump is literally asking Israel to clear out so he can steal the land for trump hotels
Israel was already clearing out the land, with the full support of the Democrats, you only care when it’s Trump doing it though.
They’re NOTHING alike.
They’re both genocidal psychopaths
Trump is literally committing crimes against US people, and tried to deport LEGAL citizens
Sorry, I forgot that blueMAGA people like you are hardcore fascists who think only Americans are human.
Now, it was discovered he deported people who shouldn’t have been, and the supreme court can’t get them back.
That’s not really comparable to murdering hundreds of thousands of people who shouldn’t have been. Oh sorry, I forgot, only Americans are people.
You’re so focused on the 1 issue
Again, that one issue: the mass slaughter of an entire people.
and the good things they’ve done
“At least Hitler made the trains run on time”
that you’re ignoring the 50000 other ones Trump is doing
No, that’s you projecting. You’re the one who ignores the evil one side does.
Tim walz was literally bragging about feeding school kids.
Tim Walz proclaimed that the expansion of Israel was an “absolute fundamental necessity”, actively supporting the murder of tens of thousands of school kids.
Trump did nothing but talk about himself and “crooked hilary”, “sleepy joe”, etc
“I can accept genocide, but I draw the line at being rude”.
Seriously listen to yourself, you’re more upset by Trump bragging than you are about mass graves full of mutilated civilians and mass rape camps. What is wrong with you!
When it comes to foreign policy and making the rich richer? Absolutely. The only potential difference is on some social issues.
After the train run on you by democrats…
Removed by mod
The funniest thing about non Americans is that they think most of us don’t fucking know this. It’s so annoying
It’s okay to hate both.
And it’s ok to strategically vote for the least bad option rather than empowering the most bad option while still acknowledging the system is broken
Absolutely agree with this statement.
Much less ok to pretend both are the same
Nazis vs Nazi collaborators. Yes they’re different, but both deserve the firing squad.
Removed by mod
You got a real shelf to be shoving things off
Finally someone who speaks the truth, however humans are a lost case, you can’t un-slave mentality without changing the people.
Honestly, I read this thread and can’t comprehend how a civilization as advanced as the United States of America thinks that defending a binary choice of democracy is a good thing to do… It’s impossible to represent a country with a few million people like that, imagine ~300M. Anyway, keep going at each other’s throats for your party color… smh.
It’s not an advanced civilization, they have slavery enshrined in constitution.
What part of the Constitution are you referring to?
13th Amendment I assume. Slavery is allowed as punishment for any crime.
…huh, I haven’t noticed that…
I don’t blame you, I was educated that it abolished slavery. But there’s a very big “except”. It was partially added to help sway the Confederate states to make them happy that they can keep slaves if they find enough things to arrest them for.
It’s part of why Jim Crow laws happened. And it’s exactly why America has the highest amount of people in jail than any other nation. Slaves are cheap labor.
Americans think their favorite political sports team cares about them like the stripper actually loved them. No, you just gave them what they wanted and as soon as you’re out of sight, they’ll forget you and keep doing their job.
For strippers it’s doing a workout for a living and being proud of their bodies. For politicians it’s gaslighting the public into thinking they’re the good guys as they socially murder at home and sweep up blood abroad.
Removed by mod
Downvotes are disabled on my instance; multiple people think you wrote something inane. I have no problem replying to you telling you that you live in a dictatorship of capital where both sides are the same but you are so propagandized and ignorant you can’t even see the truth right in front of your nose. One side enables the other, the US functions as a whole. The democracy there is kay fabe and predetermined. You don’t get a vote for the board members of Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Blackstone, Raytheon etc.
It blows my mind that even now, there are people like you who claim they can’t tell the difference between Biden and Trump.
You have to remember that, unlike you, some people consider the lives of foreigners to be worth as much as the lives of Americans
It blows my mind that you interpreted what he said that way.
I quote, absolutely directly:
both sides are the same
It’s a breathtakingly stupid take.
I didn’t see Biden and Trump in that quote. Facts are that both sides are just doing what they can get away with according to the crowd they’re trying to appeal to. If left to their own devices, both sides will engage in heinous behavior. The only thing stopping the Democrats from doing more Republican things is in a way, their branding as “good guys”, whatever that may mean to Democrat sided citizens. The point is there is a lack of scrutiny on our end and the whole good vs evil black and white bullshit distracts us from the fact that the people in charge of the Democrats are just as capable of evil and are just two sides of the same coin taking different approaches. There was a time when the Republicans were the good guys and the Democrats were the evil ones and that can switch just as easily as it did before. The whole Red vs Blue shit is a distraction. He never said it’s okay to vote for Trump or okay not to vote against him and it’s extremely disingenuous for you to say that that’s his fucking take.
I can tell the difference, in the same way I can tell the difference between a father that molests his children and the wife that covers for and enables him.
Removed by mod
Curious how democrats decided to do genocide over obstructing any of the dastardly acts on your list. Is it lost on you how the democrats are controlled opposition?
If, in 20 years, your choice is between a democrat who wants 9 genocides and a republican who wants 10, which would you choose?
Removed by mod
won’t someone think of the contractual obligations??? 🙀🙀🙀
Let’s not pretend that Trump’s plan to forcibly remove all Palestinians from Gaza isn’t a revival of the same plan put forth by Biden behind closed doors.
But in a statement Thursday, the Egyptian government rejected efforts to move Palestinians from Gaza as a “blatant violation” of international law that could undercut ceasefire talks and threaten Middle East relations.
A Western diplomat in Cairo, also speaking anonymously because the discussions have not been made public, confirmed receiving Egypt’s message of its strong opposition through multiple channels. The diplomat said Egypt was very serious and viewed the plan as a threat to its national security.
The diplomat said Egypt rejected similar proposals from the Biden administration and European countries early in the war, which was sparked by Hamas’ Oct. 7, 2023 attack into southern Israel. The earlier proposals were broached privately, while Trump announced his plan at a White House press conference alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
The only obligation the US has, under the Leahy Law and International Law, is to cease weapons transfers to Israel for violating human rights and perpetrating crimes against humanity.
Biden is a self proclaimed Zionist, he absolutely supported this genocide, both materially, diplomatically, and ideologically.
The one who wants fewer genocides, how is that even a question?
But much better would be using those 20 years to empower progressives at the local level, so they have the experience to get elected to the state level, which gives them the experience to be competitive at the federal level. No one is saying to just support the Dems forever. You can spend 1 day every 4 years helping the Republicans lose, and spend the other 1460 fighting for better options. I recommend it, in fact.
Voting lesser evil slows the descent into fascism while we build the progressive base necessary for a progressive to win the general election. No one is saying the lesser evil is good, we know it’s evil, that’s why we call it the lesser evil. But it is the lesser evil, and when you have a choice between two evils winning, the lesser evil is preferable.
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning, or not voting at all, does not give us better options. Building a successful third party takes time and many, many wins in smaller elections. Personally, I’d rather spend that time under a neo-liberal regime than a Christofascist one. They’re both bad, but one is unambiguously worse.
Vote progressive for every local office you can. If there are no progressive options, consider running yourself or convincing a politically inclined friend to do so. If we all show up for every single election, and flood every level of government with progressives, maybe in 20 years we’ll have a better choice than 9 genocides vs 10 genocides. But every Republican win helps gerrymander and disenfranchise us further from that goal.
Surely nobody thought of this 20 years ago when George fucking Bush was in office. Or 40 years ago when Reagan was in office. This idea of pushing the liberal party left and running locally is a totally fresh and original idea and definitely isn’t a distraction from organizing the working class into a force of its own which demands concessions from the ruling class at the threat of upheaval.
It’s not a new idea, we just haven’t been implementing it. And who said anything about pushing the liberal party left? It’s not about parties, it’s about politicians and their policies. Run third party wherever it’s viable, run Democrat where it isn’t, it’s really not that important what letter is next to your name. What’s important is your platform.
definitely isn’t a distraction from organizing the working class into a force of its own
That’s exactly what I’m suggesting. What is “showing up to every election to vote for progressives” if not organizing the working class? What kind of organization do you think has a lower barrier than voting? If we can’t organize the working class to vote one day every couple years, how on Earth do you expect them to jeopardize their safety and livelihoods with more direct action?
And even then, those approaches aren’t mutually exclusive. Voting in no way prevents you from organizing. In fact, strategically voting against the fascists explicitly helps the push to organize. It’s much easier to protest when the reaction is a smug “I’m talking now”, than when the reaction is having your degree retroactively nullified or, y’know, getting deported to an El Salvadorian gulag.
I understand the dissenting opinions, but it’s mind-boggling people can’t grasp this in the modern world. There’s almost 350 million people in the US. It’s impossible to immediately get everyone on the same page and make meaningful change in a short period of time.
If you abstain from voting, you absolutely allow the greater evil to thrive and become worse. Look at the extent that Bush went to after 9/11. No one should want that.
Modlog for this comment says rule 2, but that rule is about reposts??!!
According to the modlog, this is the removed comment:
Democrats are far from perfect, but last time they were in power they… invested in infrastructure, forgave student debt, helped Ukraine defend itself, and tried to give everyone healthcare. Republicans have now crashed the (global) economy, increased disease spread, decimated public departments and services, fired thousands of critical workers and veterans, retaliated against people for their Free Speech, limited rights of women, immigrants, and LGBTQ+ people, made us less safe against wildfires and contagions, started to gut Medicare, turned all our allies against us, raised prices on everything, engaged in corrupt theft of our tax dollars, and now want to deport legal Americans.
Well, I think this is worth highlighting.
The rule 2 refers to the rule 2 of the instance, not the community, which is:
Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
The part you decided to show in the modlog is also a little deceptive. Here is the missing part:
“BoTh SiDeS!” EDIT lol, the instant downvote from OP.
The rule 2 refers to the rule 2 of the instance, not the community, which is:
Ah that makes more sense.
The part you decided to show in the modlog is also a little deceptive.
I left that out not to be deceptive, but because it wasn’t germane to everything else, and it was an edit.
Not sure what you said but 100% agreed
Haha, a removed comment, I shall assume everything it said was 100% in line with my beliefs.
You do realize you don’t have to assume and can just look at the modlog, right?
What a sad way to view the world and all its viewpoints…
I don’t know why you all tolerate this pathetic c3nsorshep here. All I said in my “unalived” comment was basically that there is 1 party in the USA that illegally disappears people, crashes the global economy (for you and me!), is corrupt, etc, and the other one tried to give everybody health care. “b07H s1des” right!?
Your daily reminder that blueMAGA doesn’t consider Palestinians to be people.
It’s kind of why we need Ranked Choice Voting.
i live somewhere with mandatory voting, and have looked into places with ranked choice. it doesnt do much.
the problem is capitalism and the rich’s interests being paid for instead of ours. not how the ballots are made or counted.
Alternative voting systems have in practice been proven useless, whether in South Korea, Japan, Australia, and many other capitalist dictatorship countries that use it. It might make bribery a bit more expensive, since there are more candidates to buy off, and more political advertising necessary, but it hasn’t fixed anything.
The root problem is capital standing above political power. And that can’t be undone using it’s own platform.
How are you measuring useless?
Australia has RCV and has more than 2 active political parties.
RCV hasn’t stopped right wing governments from coming to power, nor returned lands to indigenous Australians, nor done anything to reverse concentration of wealth or media ownership.
True, it’s just a voting system. It can’t do those things unless people vote for those things to happen.
The thing RCV does do is break us out of the control of a 2-party government. So we could have a communist party with RCV, but can’t in our current system.
You can’t achieve a democracy through voting, it always results in an oligarchy. The wealthy / economically dominant classes are the only ones who have enough money / prestige to finance their campaigns and win the popularity contest. It makes any political system based on elections nothing more than political theatre.
This is basic stuff even the ancient greeks knew, and communists learned through trial and error, yet liberals in the 21st century can’t wrap their heads around it.
That’s an interesting perspective on things and gives me something to think about.
No probs. Here’s an overview of how communists view democracy.
RCV specifically is worse than say Ranked Robin voting, STAR voting, or score voting which all would make the least liked candidate winning less likely compared to RCV or FPTP.
Most countries stopped at RCV, but Ranked Robin or STAR would be a big upgrade.
Fixing the voting system is just one of the key things that needs to happen though. Education desperately needs reforms. Our media desperately needs reforms such as the Fairness Doctrine coming back and being expanded to all media and social media influencers/podcasters as well.
most countries that are not the US have more than 2 political parties.
I hear people say this, but how do we get it?
The people in power will lose their power if we did, so we won’t.
It’s up to the states. It already implemented in Maine and Alaska, with a majority of people in those state approving of it.
I’m still pissed off it was voted down in Oregon
But their tolerance for making you suffer differs significantly.
One side are literal fascists and the other is not. Nothing else matters compared to that.
Why did the Biden regime give $18B to Israel to help murder Palestinian civilians?
Can you answer for any of Obama’s equally vicious war crimes?
Trump and his fascist goons are worse. Period. End of discussion.
Biden was the one who first proposed ethnically cleansing the Gazan population.
Do you think Biden is the prime minister of Israel?
We’re talking in an American context here. Don’t try to deflect.
The only deflection is pretending that what is happening in Gaza is Biden’s idea and not a continuation of 70 years of policy held by both parties.
"[Supporting Israel] is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.”
- Biden
Period. End of discussion.
You fucking baby
Go ahead, tell me how Trump and the Republicans are better than the Democrats. I’m sure any explanation you give won’t make it glaringly obvious don’t belong to any minority groups.
Who said anything about the Republicans being better?
deleted by creator
One side are literal fascists and the other is the former’s enables.
FTFY
both sides are literally fascist. one is just covert about it.
You really should look up the definition of fascist, because you are using it wrong.
Which parts of the definition don’t they meet?
Let’s go with Umberto Eco’s definition since it is well known and it is numbered for easy reference.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism#Overview
The only part that might apply to Democrats is #6.
2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 13, and 14 all apply to the Democrats
How so?
From Wikipedia:
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to Marxism, democracy, anarchism, pluralism, free markets, egalitarianism, communism, liberalism, and socialism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.
Democrats are right-wing, but not far-right. Democrats are not authoritarian or ultranationalist, Democrats are not characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, or belief in a natural social hierarchy. Democrats are not opposed to democracy, egalitarianism, or liberalism.
Democrats are most definitely authoritarian and Ultranationalist. They are also hugely militarist and autocratic, as well as holding a strong belief in hierarchy. They’re also opposed to democracy and egalitarianism.
“Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism
Democrats do not reject political plurality.
Democrats do not reduce democracy (rather they increase it by defending voting rights).
Democrats protect the separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law.
Democrats do not fit the definition of nationalism, let alone ultranationalism.
They do not hold strong beliefs in hierarchy, oppose democracy, or oppose egalitarianism. That’s just an outright lie.
Democrats are not authoritarian or ultranationalist, Democrats are not characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, or belief in a natural social hierarchy
guys, do i tell him?
Nazi party vs Nazi collaborator party. Different, but both deserve the gallows.
Yea so this is why I support third parties. Dems need to be better than “not fascist”
The system as it stands does not support third parties and Democrats are the only hope we have of changing that system without massive bloodshed and suffering.
Thus helping a facist wins. Great move.
So long as we are an FPTP system with the current 2 options it’s just shooting the non-fascist option in the foot for no reason. Gotta keep non-fascist around so you can actually have a chance at fixing things without getting gulaged.
Both parties are fascist
Objectively false
I love how 3% third parties with no chance of upending either party are super effective at killing specifically non-conservative campaigns AND helping checkers-players feel smug faster. Take a bow for being part of today’s problem.
Hows it feel to simp for a party that can’t get a 3% advantage on donald fucking Trump? If that was our only option and we are effectively voting at gunpoint then there never was any “democracy” to protect.
I love how democrats with no interest in catering to their base of voters are super effective at preventing third party and progress candidates from even getting on the ballot or in front of voters, so you can sit there keep saying they have no chance of winning. I love how liberals will excuse voting for the genocidal maniacs you’re convinced are your only option because you’re comfortable enough under this system that you’re willing to work within it and turn your cheek to all of the violence it commits at home and abroad.
You only care when the genocide comes to your front door, what about your fucking neighbors who are getting evicted and thrown out of their homes because their housing is too valuable to somebody else’s monetary interests to just let them live there in peace? What about the homeless, the working poor, the food insecure, the largest prison population on the planet who coincidentally are legal to use as slave labor? Are they not worth fighting for as long as you aren’t the one on the streets, working for starvation wages, or in prison? In 20 years, are you going to get a “progressive” in office that will offer platitudes about actually treating those people like human beings as they do next to nothing about it? Capitalism requires us to live under the threat of homelessness, of imprisonment, of starvation. Our government is completely captured by capitalists who will not allow you to vote this away, because without this level of coercion their system will collapse. All they have to do is make you believe you are not being coerced, and if anyone is then they deserve it actually, and that is precisely the role played by our two parties.
A better world is possible, but it sure as hell isn’t going to come about through any “solution” sold to us by those who collect vast power and profit within the world as it is. THAT is today’s problem, the refusal to recognize where power lies and what interests it has. Not the third party voters who already see the system for what it is and always has been. Not the ones who are struggling to bring an end to this system that is designed such that its only material interest is in finding new ways to remove our rights and boosting candidates who will carry that out.
Hows it feel to simp for a party that can’t get a 3% advantage on donald fucking Trump?
Feels better than simping for a party that can’t get 3% of the votes in the first place
Reading isn’t your strong suit, is it?
Genocide apologist
