Winn always made my skin crawl!
Who’s the first?
No, not who’s on first. I know Who is. I’m asking who the first image is of 😅
Ensign Charly Burke from the show The Orville.
Dukat has entered the chat
He’s hated. But in a way that makes you want to see more of him.
That’s true. We LOVE to hate him.
I truly love that the writers set Dukat up for a redemption arc, but that he chose to become worse instead.
Yeah, but you’re supposed to dislike Winn, she’s the villain. Her acting was perfect for the role.
Personally I absolutely love Winn … because I hate her character so much.
As soon as I see her in an episode I know I’m gonna enjoy it because she’ll leave a lasting memory for me as to why I dislike her so much. Louise Fletcher is such a beautiful actress because she makes you forget you’re watching a TV show and makes you absolutely want to step into an air lock and blast yourself out into the vacuum of space just to leave her presence.
She reminds me of Joffrey from GoT in that sense.
I will never stop loving to hate Louise Fletcher characters. She was amazing.
Good villains make you want to crawl in through the screen and punch them, and boy is Kai Winn a punchable character.
Ironically, I have never wanted to punch Q, but Sisko punched him and never Winn.
People hated Wesley more than they hated Pulaski.
Hmm, it’s been a while since something reminded me of alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
I always liked Wesley
Come on, Pulaski wasn’t that bad. She even had a decent character arc to become likeable. Winn though… yeah we hate her.
with every rewatch of TNG, i come to appreciate Pulaski more and more. her exchanges with Moriarty, in particular, make for an enjoyable watch.
She was one of the only characters to have true growth. I loved her. Plus, Diana Muldaur is awesome. Still with us at 86!
Are you saying Winn didn’t have character arc?
She had the biggest arc in startrek and it was masterfully acted…
From disliked to loathed is still growth.
Yeah, but there was that little moment in between where you almost felt sorry for her, before the ultimate “nah, she is still piece of shit…”
I have nothing against her actress. She played wonderfully. I really loved to hate her character. This overzealous and overtly jealous priest.
I don’t know, Winn stresses me out. I always think DS9 is my favorite until I remember how much I hate Winn, and how much anxiety she creates, and I hesitate. I don’t like to hate her. I just wish she weren’t there.
The Elders tell me Pulaski was supposed to be “unlikable” but in a gruff, McCoy dammit-i’m-a-doctor kind of way.
But the fact that that wasn’t possible to do (and wouldn’t have worked if it was) apparently didn’t stop them from trying.
The sophomore slump hits everybody.
I think they were trying to build a Pulaski-Data relationship that mirrored the McCoy-Spock relationship, where McCoy would say something shockingly racist like calling Spock a green-blooded hobgoblin, but then Spock would insult him right back and it was all in good fun so it was “okay.” The problem was that Data wasn’t able to give as good as he got, so it came across as Pulaski bullying the sweet autistic kid, which did not work as well as McCoy-Spock.
She even had a decent character arc to become likeable.
Her whole arc was supposed to explore the idea of a kind-of rational and legitimate hatred, then see where it led.
spoiler
Time and again, her bigotry caused new injury to herself and to others. But then this was held in contrast to Ed Mercer’s persistent failed efforts to extend an olive branch to rival alien races who were unable to divest of their own bigotries.
That’s what made the latest season of Orville so fucking good.
spoiler
The whole season is about trying to build a coalition between the liberal Planetary Union and the fascist Chak’tal and ultra-conservative Moclan. But, in the end, their commitment to their own moral compass paves a way for an unexpected alliance with the Kaylon that yields far more fruit than any kind of strategic military compromise with the corrupt governments of the Chak’tal or Moclan.
It wasn’t just that she became likeable. Its that the guiding principles of the Planetary Union usher the crew towards a better galaxy, even when that path isn’t immediately clear from the outset.
While I like your analysis, the comment you’re responding to was referring to Pulaski’s arc, not Charlie’s.
Ah, damn. Well, nevermind then.
It was a great analysis though:)
I don’t recognize her. What show?
“Yes”
Her too.
I love the way the two principle evils of DS9 are both motivated by a deep conviction that they have been treated unfairly.
Maybe I’m alone on this, but I found a lot of the story lines with Neelix from Voyager to be hard to watch.
If they’d only stopped making him so damned childish.
Ever seen Avenue5? Spike was what Neelix shoulda been and it’s hilarious.
Spike is awesome. I need them to make a lot more Avenue 5. I’m holding out hope that it’ll get the Red Dwarf treatment.
Actually, I wish they’d made his girlfriend a little less, ah, childish.
Hot take: i never understood the whole controversy around him dating an alien with a very short lifespan.
She isnt a child in their society, just a (young) woman. Had she remained with the okampa she would likely have had romantic partners around that same time in her life, possibly children as well. For that matter, as far as I know neelix isn’t interested in her for her age in any way either, so I have a hard time seeing how it is considered creepy or inappropriate. Also, the actress was a normal adult woman, so that wasn’t weird either (I cringe more at the scenes of O’Brien and teen aged Keiko in that one TNG episode, at least they didnt kiss I guess).
I found him more annoying for his petty jealousy and overused mister vulcan interactions (although I generally enjoyed their dynamic).
agreed. OH NOE SHE’S TWOOOO she’s not a fuckign human so that makes her a grown woman who’s expected to have kids at this point. Gentle and thinking the best of people =/= naive and childish.
I have never seen Avenue 5, but as an old Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I suddenly saw a foul-mouthed English bad boy Neelix in my head and it was hilarious 😂
Weirdly? A5 spike is a lot filthier and hornier.
“Hey, a hole’s a hole”
I found most of Voyager to be too cringy to watch.
It was just such a weird vibe, like they targeted it for kids who liked trek, and ultra-horny neckbeards at the exact same time.
The hormones didn’t come in until seven of nine in the way late seasons. And she’s no different than Troi, except more useful on the ship.
Are you forgetting the leotard stretching scene…? Or almost anything Troi wore in the early seasons?
No, that was bad too.
I mean, s1 and s2 was very cringy too, but they had episodes that were very well written by people other than Roddenberry, and we all tend to blank out trauma in our past.
Voyager? This wasn’t the first trek show in decades, we weren’t dying for want of decent scifi, we had tng, ds9, b5, farscape was coming online, stargate too, and before Voy finished we had The Phantom Menace and the Matrix.
The mid-late 90s were a golden age for media, our standards had increased dramatically particularly for writing.
For TNG I’d say 50% of episodes are either forgettable or near-unwatchable, with a bias towards the early seasons, S3 and S4 are just gold though.
Voyager, I have a few episodes I like (, but many more I can’t watch, the writing is just so uneven.
Btw, I have a warm spot in my heart for Enterprise, I think it got a majorly unfair rap, but the first 2 seasons are similar in their unevenness, though Season 4 is again, just gold.
we had The Phantom Menace
Hey, I thought we were talking about decent examples of sci fi
TNG … 50%
I’d put it more like 25%. That being said, I def consult episode guides when I’m rewatching and skip accordingly.
To this day I am still sad Kira wasn’t the one to do her in at the end.
Oh that would have been so nice, the last episode was very much “quick, we need to tie these threads!”
Kira going to save him from a trap through her faith somehow would have been so much cooler.
Arising from the ashes, Rey Skywalker joins the fray.
Seriously tho I have seen way more mainstream hate for Rey.
Not that Star Wars is scifi as much as space opera. Nor does it technically count as a TV series as much as a film series.
flipping through my big list of Star Wars characters to dislike
There are so many people ahead of her on the list.
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Prequels C3PO, all the cringe and none of the comedy
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Rose Tico, the plot hook that can’t act
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Watto, the flying anti-semitism
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Snoke, what are you even doing here? The practice sphere Luke spared with in A New Hope advanced the plot more than you did.
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Porkins, the pilot who couldn’t hold it together
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Maz Kanata, a bargain basement Yoda and absolutely abhorrent waste of Lupita Nyong’o’s talents
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Jar Jar Binks
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Everyone who made the Star Wars Christmas Special possible
I get being a bit annoyed that they gender-swapped Luke Skywalker got to just kinda mime her way through the first three movies. But if the worst thing Disney did was file the serial numbers of the George Lucas originals and ad a splash of color to the cast, I can almost forgive them for it.
Even just within the third trilogy… Daisy Ridley was fucking trying to give that ham of a script some spice. And she managed to leave more on the table than Hayden Christensen did with the Anakin role. Hell, she ran circles around the desiccated corpse of Harrison Ford, an honorable mention for some of the worst performance in the series.
She’s not even in the top five worst characters in the sixth best Star Wars series. Cut her some slack.
New copypasta just dropped.
Just to be clear, I was more commenting on how much hate I saw for her, because I’m pretty much on the same page as you in terms of how I feel about it. It’s pretty silly to be mad about.
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I think she’s the banner target for frustration with the Disney sequels. Almost like Jar Jar for people who didn’t like the prequels, although now that it’s been 20 years people don’t seem to hate Jar Jar as much.
Yeah. It’s worst for the most recent movie, because we’re always afraid the latest bad movie is the last one we will get.
For example, I probably don’t need to hate Pacific Rim 2, so much, and I might stop if we get some better sequels.
It doesn’t help that they basically refused to flesh out her character like there was some sort of overarching secret that was going to make it totally worth it. They kind of screwed up the algorithm, like in lost you can have mystery building mystery but you need to give away decent hints on the way through and through no fault of her own her character was just kind of bland.
Why is Charly Burke hated? Because she replaced Alara?
Charly is hated because she looks like a Fox Newz Gurl on the bridge and it’s just too convenient. Her acting is fine but there was no discernible angle there - why? I only found out she was Seth MacFarlane’s girlfriend after the season was over. Then I was like “Oohhhhhhhh. So that’s what that was about”
Yeah.
Replacing Alara didn’t help, and her PTSD aspect was really the most compelling per of her character. What really turned me off about her was how she could do everything. Need someone who can play 5 dimensional squidgyball? She’s already got her racket. The character was forced with poor writing to complete an arc too quickly. I like what the writers and show runners were trying and all, but the short seasons and long episode format weren’t great for telling that story.
Burke was a horrible racist and bigot who went against the entire point of the academy. If I can see her as an awful bigot, in her futuristic society she must have been the equivalent of a klan member. She was a horrible person through her entire existence and we’re supposed to like her cause she redeemed herself in the last 10 seconds? Nah she sucks. Also she wasn’t really a proper character, just a racist Alara clone
In all fairness alot of it stemmed from the fact she watched her partner die after they were betrayed by a supposedly ally - trust from that wouldn’t come back quickly.
Would have liked to see the series carry on a bit more though
Because she had untreated PTSD and hated the robots who killed her best friend/lover/whatever.
And then she was rude to a robot belonging to the same group as the ones who killed her best friend/lover/etc.
She’s pretty well written imo, of a traumatized character.
They were roommates
Oh my god
The question is whether the dislike of the character was because it was poorly written or poorly acted.
In this case I feel like Charlie was a well-written character who had a good arc (despite a touch of Mary Sue-itis) but Anne Winters’ delivery was absolutely flat.
The Orville has literally some of the worst acting I’ve ever seen put onto film, and Seth’s girlfriends were rarely bringing up the average. Seriously, it’s like the half the cast was there specifically to make Travis Mayweather seem like an Emmy-winning tour-de-force.
The fact that it was so damn earnest and had a some good slush-pile scripts from Star Trek saved it overall, but nobody was watching The Orville for the acting, though Penney Jerald, Peter Macon, and Adrianne Palicki handled the material well.
Yeah, she was a bit rough at first, but I didn’t have a problem with her, especially given her arc.
She should have taken medical leave if she was that fucked
She should have, but plot. And also traumatized people irl have a habit of rejecting help
Me too!
But I understand why the writers had a hard time justifying Kira killing Keiko in cold blood.
Getting Nurse Ratched to play Kai Winn was genius casting.
Don’t get me started with this guy and his fake British accent
I think you mean his fake whistle-playing hands.
